Episode 72: Jenn Bouchard, award-winning author of First Course
Jenn Bouchard, talks about her debut novel, First Course, a finalist in the 2021 American Fiction Awards.
Jenn shares her inspiration for a book about second acts, why she decided to set the book in coastal Maine, and how she approached writing about a real location.
Plus, her path to publication, why Jenn decided to go with a small publisher and a call out to her Mom!
Books & Resources Mentioned:
Grub Street Writing Center in Boston (has a lot of great online classes too)
Nothing Else is Love by Gina Linko
Jane of Battery Park by Jaye Viner
Better to Trust by Heather Frimmer
Connect with the author:
Transcript:
** Transcript created using AI (so please forgive typos!)
Lainey 0:00
Hi, this is Lainey Cameron. I'm so excited to be here with Jen Rashard, and we're going to be talking about her debut novel first course. Welcome, Jen. Hi, Lainey.
Jenn 0:09
Thanks so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here.
Lainey 0:13
And congratulations. This book has done phenomenally well. I see it was an honorable mention in the San Francisco Book Festival. And I think also another festival and it was a finalist in the American fiction awards, which is pretty amazing. Congratulations.
Jenn 0:28
Thanks so much. I'm really excited by just the reception that I've had so far.
Lainey 0:33
And for foodies, and food lovers, this is an interview you don't want to miss, because we're going to talk about all the food in this book. That is fabulous. But first off for you joining me from today, Jen, where are you?
Jenn 0:44
I live in the Boston suburbs. And I've been here now since gosh, it has been since 2013. And before that, I was in the Chicago suburbs for 12 years. And I was in Boston before that.
Lainey 1:03
And I'm sure it's not a coincidence that a lot of your book is set in Maine, right?
Jenn 1:06
It is I went to college in Maine and I can the main setting of the book cape Elizabeth, I can get there in about an hour and a half from my house. So I do spend quite a bit of time in Maine, especially along the coast. It's a favorite place for my family. And when I was really deciding where I wanted to set my first novel, I just kept gravitating back to keep Elizabeth it's outside of Portland I wanted it to be close enough to certain stores and restaurants and and other areas of recreation. But I really just I love the setting there it's beautiful. There are lighthouses there are rocky shores. I I was really drawn to setting my story there.
Lainey 1:51
I love it. So tell tell us you haven't had a chance to read it yet a little bit more about first course.
Jenn 1:57
So first course is like I said it is set primarily in coastal Maine. It is about a family, the Whitman family. Janie is 24. And her older sister Alyssa is 30. And Melissa has two young daughters. And they have just a terrible day and one summer and they lost their parents in a small plane crash. Janie has lost her job and her boyfriend who was her boss, it was a secret. And Alyssa finds out that her husband has been cheating on her in a very public sort of way in their small town in Massachusetts. And so all of these terrible things happen. And it brings the two sisters back to their family summer house and cape Elizabeth where they have to figure out kind of what happens next. So it is a book about second acts. There's a lot of laughter though, despite some of the grief. There is a ton of food and there are some fun romances as well.
Lainey 3:01
And I noticed like the people who've reviewed this book and I had the same experience loved the main setting and adored the food. It was like getting hungry the entire way through this book, because she keeps making these fabulous meals like it's her way of coping almost right.
Jenn 3:15
Absolutely. That's what you know, she's always, always cooked as a way to bring people together. And it certainly comes in handy given the circumstances that that everyone is going through.
Lainey 3:27
So let's take a quick peek at one review. Like I said, this is getting such fabulous reviews. And this is an enormous endorsement from saralyn Brock, who's also been on the podcast here. She's the author of designer you and daytime drama, we had her on talking about daytime drama. So she says first course is a sweet, romantic story about Janie, a young woman who after a series of traumatic events, just like you were saying Jen, unfolding in less than 24 hours learns how to pick herself up again and rediscover who she is as a sister daughter and girlfriend and cook. Through shards writing is snappy and smart and whisks the reader away on a virtual summer tour of Maine and yeah, people love the main location. I noticed in all your reviews people really enjoy that was it was it hard writing about a real place? like did you have to, like did you hold yourself to getting everything absolutely accurate? Or did you let yourself have a little leeway? Because it's fiction after all,
Jenn 4:20
I really tried. We went up there. I mean, it took me two and a half years to draft this. So I was going to make a bunch during that time anyway. And there was this one time where my family we drove from Portland, which is huge, like I said, really close to Cape Elizabeth. We drove from Portland, up to the Camden Rockport Rocklin area where the fictional colleges set and that's also important to the story, and I just wanted to make sure I got everything right and my husband was driving and I was sitting in the passenger seat, and I took notes the whole drive. I was noting every bridge and there are a ton of these little bridges. I lost track of how many but I was trying to stay so accurate. You pass through all of these charming towns and I took notes of the things that you saw on the side of the road, because I really did want it to be as authentic as possible.
Lainey 5:11
Wow, wow, that's dedication, like counting the bridges is sheer dedication. So talk to us. This is your debut novel. And I love to ask people about their editing and their path to publication, like talk to us a little bit about the path that this book went through from when you started until it was ready to win awards as it has,
Jenn 5:29
I really, I really didn't know much of what I was doing. I hadn't written any fiction in any sort of serious way since probably middle school and, and so I went to a lot of author events, I was really curious as to what other authors had experienced, particularly ones who I admired. And I went to Elizabeth Gilbert event, I went to a Richard Russo event was a ton of fun, and just kind of listened to their stories and at the same time started kind of chipping away at, at this book. And like I said, it took me two and a half years to just get a first draft, my children were quite young, when I started, they were seven and three, it's a little bit easier now that they're, they're 14 and 10. But I, I just you know, want to see if I could do it. And then once I finish, I said, Okay, now what and so I spent about a year editing to get myself. And then I did take one seminar at grubstreet, which is a writing center here in Boston. I really liked the instructor and so I ended up hiring her as a consultant to help me with my query letter and my first four chapters, and then you know, she was the one who suggested she was do you have a friend who, you know, would be good at this and I said, Yeah, I said one of my really good friends from high school as an English teacher, and she's local. And so my friend Stephanie now reads everything I write, and has been she's a voracious reader so she is super helpful, we're all of this is concerned. And then I just started querying from there and it took it took a while, I had a lot of a lot of full requests. And a lot of I almost offered you representation but decided to pass and so I decided after about 10 months of that to start sending it out to some small presses that didn't require an agent and within an hour of sending it to who became my publisher touchpoint press they asked for the full manuscript and I heard from them four months later with an offer for publication so that's that's how it happened.
Lainey 7:36
And and you know, what's really interesting is small publishers I'm with a small publisher too for my debut. They have such a different way of looking at what makes for a book they want to have right like big publishers aren't just looking for a book that readers alike they're looking for a breakthrough success that might be the next big book right? And that's such a high bar because who knows what that books going to be? Certainly not big publishers are actually not very good at judging it. And so it's really interesting that that's such a ridiculous bar to set for a book not is it great and well readers love it, but will it be a breakthrough and it's kind of fascinating I actually tell people all the time that there's a reason the most of the big breakthrough successes are actually self published novels because big publishers aren't that good at choosing those big breakthrough books and it's the bar they're using to choose were a small publishers they're looking at well readers love this book.
Jenn 8:25
And that's a much easier bar and I have to say you know, being a part of my debut group and also being a part of women's fiction writers Association I've met so many authors including you who have written books that just knocked my socks off. I gave him I gave my mom your book and she loved it and now is passing it on to her friends and recommending it to everyone and my sister who reads and listens to audiobooks is mom if you're listening I know I know she's she's on board with it now she wants to she wants to listen to it so I really think that there are so many fantastic books out there and I'm so glad that I've got a little window into what's out there now that I wouldn't have known about otherwise right.
Lainey 9:08
And there's no good or bad or right or wrong and don't get me wrong I'm not saying big publisher books are fabulous because they always are often are but just there's no like there's no right or wrong here. There's so many ways to take your books into the world and what readers right. And so let's talk a little bit more did anything change like in that time as you were editing it you're getting you've got your friend as an English teacher helping you Is there anything readers who read the book might be surprised to know it was different in earlier versions?
Jenn 9:35
Um, you know, there were just some things about early on, when I was trying to figure out how to convey things that were happening with Alyssa and what had happened with her husband and how she found out about it. And also about when she first goes to this yoga class in Maine and meets this guy we call yoga dude. You know how I was feeling conveying that was really tricky and it was honestly kind of a mess. And I needed both. Ursula who was the consultant from grubstreet, and my friend Stephanie to kind of help me out with how I was going to express that and really finding, finding the voice and finding the mechanism for that. I'd also say my, my editor from my publisher, Jen hoskin, who was incredible. I agree with every single edit, she gave me she, she just got the book. And there were she, she suggested she didn't say I had to do it. But she suggested that this, not the last chapter, but the the two chapters before the last chapter that I reworked them, and she gave me some really great suggestions. And just about, you know, how it all didn't have to come together and the neatest of both, like, there were ways to still, you know, make it real life and make it a little messy. And that was helpful to me, too.
Lainey 10:53
Oh, I thought I thought it ended really well. And I could see that like, you kind of have all these things happen and then have like perfection at the end of the book, because whose life is perfection, right? It makes it realistic. Yeah, right. So any writing advice you've come so far, you've been nominated for these awards finalist in these awards? Like, what would you advise people who want to take a similar path, maybe want to write a similar tone of book like, what have you learned along the way,
Jenn 11:18
I, it's funny how when you do this, you know, just like I went to so many of my friends who had started doing a little bit of writing, and some of them have been very successful, I went to them for advice I'm starting to have the same thing happened to me. And first of all, I just say you can do this, if this is something that you want to do, you can do this have that confidence. One of the best pieces of advice I got early on was for I was an RA when you're in college, and one of the one of the students on my floor. She has become a very successful writer, Andrea Williams, she wrote the book The longest night, and she told me right away she was you need to be tenacious. And that was, I think, what I needed to hear at the time, and to have that confidence, even though this is an incredibly intimidating industry to have the competence that you can do this and that your work can be good.
Lainey 12:13
That's great. It's a great way to put it, it can be good, right? Whether it is yet or not. We were just talking before we started about the second one, right? And it's different writing the second book because literally you for me what's different is I know that it will be good by the time I'm done, even if it's not yet and I'm okay with it not being perfect. Yet the first time I felt like every stage it had to be perfect. Like how does that mean for you writing the second one,
Jenn 12:34
I agree I you know, I would just say it's, it's going so much easier for me. And there are parts of it that are very complicated. And I'm about to you know, get into kind of the last third of the book now. And I have a whole list of things that I know I need to accomplish by the end of the book. And I know it's going to be hard. But I also know that I can do this. And there were other points in the book that I was nervous about. And I got through those. So I think that just having realistic goals for yourself, I made a goal that I would finish with the first draft of this by the end of 2021. And I'm on track to do that. And I you know, want to be able to start writing a book a year, so that that's what I'm planning on doing. And I definitely think it's possible.
Lainey 13:20
That's great, great insights for other writers on how it changes over time as well. So reading wise, got nothing to recommend read nothing good recently,
Jenn 13:28
definitely. I just got to I got to blurb a book, which is really exciting. Gina Linko. She's with my publisher, she's with touch my press and her book is coming out this month. It's called Nothing Else is Love. And I think that everyone's going to absolutely love it. So I got I got to blurb her book. That was great. And then I've got two on my list to read. Now. Also people I've read I have met this year. So Jaye Viners book, Jane of Battery Park is on my list as well as Heather Frommer's book Better to Trust. And I got to go to Heather's virtual launch a couple weeks ago and it was it was wonderful. So I'm really excited to read those.
Lainey 14:13
Awesome well before we wrap up, and I'll put the information on both those books in the show notes on the website if anyone wants to check those out. Before we wrap up, let me just show folks how they can connect with you. And you are at Jen Bouchard boasts Bo, je and n Bouchard b o s on Instagram. And jen bouchard.com is your website and they can find all your other links there. And I always like to end up by asking, what did you want to talk about that I maybe haven't asked you or that we haven't had a chance to get to?
Jenn 14:44
Um, you know, I it's hard to really think you know, at this point what else because I do feel like we've we've hit on the food, you know, we've hit on, we've hit on what I'm doing next. But I would just I would just say the biggest thing is It's a sort of reiterate, you know that, to have to have confidence and to and to feel for all of you out here who are wondering if it's ever gonna happen for you that you know, I would just say learn a lot, read read interviews, go to author events, if you can hear about other authors journeys, I would also say that the, the other authors who I have gotten to know have been incredibly supportive when I've had questions. So I think sometimes we have a tendency to isolate ourselves a bit, and to feel like we're doing all this alone and to definitely reach out to other people. And they can, they can be very helpful and chances are many of them have gone through the same, the same things that you've gone through, and when you've been stuck, or when you you worry that you're you're never going to be published there. There are lots of people out there who have gone through the same things and, and definitely hear from them, but it will make you feel a lot better and give you the competence you need to keep going.
Lainey 15:58
That's great coaching, I love that I want to like put that on a post it note and like, but we'll use that as a snippet from the show for people. Well, I encourage folks go read first course it's a great example of a debut novel that's going on to become an award winner, which is definitely not most debut novels, so it is worth your time. It's a fun, uplifting, joyous read. It's got a romantic angle to it. It's got a sibling sisters angle to it, and it's really heartwarming. So I'd encourage folks go give it a read. And Jen, thanks so much for joining me today.
Jenn 16:27
Thanks Lainey. I appreciate it. This is a lot of fun.