Episode 110: Louisa Treger, author of Madwoman
Louisa Treger talks about her latest historical novel, MADWOMAN, inspired by the true story of Nelly Bly, an investigative journalist who faked madness and got herself committed to an insane asylum in the late 1800s. Louisa talks about how her background as an orchestral performer helped her career as a writer, why she made the career transition, and how she first heard about Nelly Bly’s story.
In addition, Louisa shares great advice for writers and we chat about what her research looked like, the one source that left a lasting impression on her, and the best books she’s read lately.
Books Mentioned:
Madwoman by Louisa Treger (Bookshop.org / Amazon.com )
Lucy by the Sea by Elizabeth Strout (Bookshop.org / Amazon.com )
My Name is Lucy Barton by Elizabeth Strout (Bookshop.org / Amazon.com )
Anything is Possible by Elizabeth Strout (Bookshop.org / Amazon.com )
Connect with the author:
Transcript:
** Transcript created using AI (so please forgive the typos!) **
Ashley Hasty 0:00
Well, Louisa, thank you so much for joining me. As I mentioned before we started recording, I am so grateful that you're giving of your time for both this podcast and my blog. I'm very happy to have you on today.
Louisa Treger 0:11
It's a total pleasure to be here. Thank you for having me.
Ashley Hasty 0:15
Well, I'm really excited to discuss your latest novel, so let's not waste any time and dive right. And would you tell our listeners what man woman is about?
Louisa Treger 0:25
Of course. So mad woman is about America's first female investigative journalist Nellie Bly to get her first big scoop and to be taken seriously in the newspaper industry, which was run by men. She faked madness, and got herself committed to the notorious lunatic asylum of on Blackwell's Island, which is off the coast of New York. And when she came out, she exposed the terrible conditions. So my novel focuses on that period of her life, she went on to do many other amazing things. And my novel also goes back to her childhood to explore what made her the remarkable person she became.
Ashley Hasty 1:10
This is your third novel, is that right?
Louisa Treger 1:14
That's right. That's right.
Ashley Hasty 1:17
The dragon lady and The Lodger all works of historical fiction. What drew you to write in the historical fiction genre?
Louisa Treger 1:24
I wrote a PhD about modernists, British writer, Dorothy Richardson. And when I'd finished, I thought her life story was really interesting. And I wanted to tell it, but then the more books I wrote, I realized that there's a theme of trailblazing women. So I kind of feel that these women almost find me but but there's a definite theme emerging. And I love the form of fiction rather than straight biography, because it gives me a bit more leeway to access my characters, emotional lives.
Ashley Hasty 2:00
That's a great segue into my next question, because all three of your books are centered around real people in history. So I'm curious what it is that you like about writing about real people as opposed to entirely fictional characters? Of
Louisa Treger 2:14
course? Well, as I as I sort of lived my life, I've become increasingly aware that there are so many amazing women who have either been forgotten by history, or perhaps men have taken credit for their achievements. And, you know, I kind of have developed a passion for telling their stories, and my novels always, you know, follow the biographical outlines of their lives, and maybe took a bit more liberty with the dragon lady, because there was there was really very little biographical information. And you know, as, as I said, it just gives me license to imagine myself into their thoughts and their conversations, which really enables me to draw out themes that I find interesting.
Ashley Hasty 3:08
You started your career, interestingly, as a classical violinist, orchestral player and teacher. So I'm really curious, how did this path lead you to become a writer?
Louisa Treger 3:22
Well, well, again, it was chance might go till I got me and had to take a year out. And it gave me a chance to rethink my life. And also, you know, it would have been a long time before I've been well enough to get back on stage because that takes everything physically and emotionally and mentally. But I decided during this rethink that I wanted to work with words and not music. And I really feel like I found my true calling with writing. But there are a lot of parallels between music and writing. So in a way, I feel that being a musician was a great training for being a writer. I'm happy to talk more about that if you'd like me to. Yeah, I
Ashley Hasty 4:08
would love for you to tell me more about that.
Louisa Treger 4:10
Well, I think the most important thing was that music taught me the discipline, to glue myself to a chair and spend hours on my own honing my craft. And, you know, I really think that, right, it's most important attribute is that discipline to work. And then there are so many parallels between music and writing like rhythm, tone, color, Onomatopoeia, alliteration, repetition.
Ashley Hasty 4:43
That's so interesting. I, as you describe it, I can of course, imagine the parallels between the two but when I first read about it, I was
Louisa Treger 4:51
it seems like a leak, doesn't
Ashley Hasty 4:54
it? Yes. Do you still play in your spare time?
Louisa Treger 4:57
So it's very difficult to stay on one level and not go downhill when you don't have time to practice and that, you know, I've fallen into that trap. The last time I played was for my daughter's GCSE, which is a public exam in the UK, which you have to sit when you're 15 or 16. And she did music, she's a flautist, and there was a performing kind of part of the exam. And she said to me, Mum, will you do this with me? And I did. And we had a great time rehearsing it was a really lovely bonding thing. But I was so nervous because I thought, If I miss this, and I've missed her exam, often, it was totally nerve wracking. But luckily, that didn't happen. And they gave her very good marks.
Ashley Hasty 5:47
The most difficult part in the writing process, at least for me, is transitioning from the research phase to the writing phase. I couldn't in the research forever, it's my favorite process.
Louisa Treger 6:00
Okay, isn't it wonderful?
Ashley Hasty 6:02
so on. So I'd love to hear about other authors in their research. So tell me what your research process is, like, were you able to travel when you're researching Nellie? By
Louisa Treger 6:13
lucky I've been able able to travel for the dragon lady and Nellie Bly. And I think, you know, if you're actually in the locations where your novel takes place, it's a privilege, but it does make the writing come alive in some way. And I'm exactly like you, I love research. So my process is a bit haphazard, I sort of stuck with whatever materials that I have to hand, and then I follow every lead, and some of them, you know, are dead ends, and some of them turn up gold. And you never know, which is which I'm sure there are other researchers who are much more organized than I am. And then I feel the same as you that it's difficult to start writing. And to get over that block. I made myself start writing while the research is still underway. I like Yes. And it's usually not chronological, organized. It's just that certain scenes come to life in my head. I don't know if you find that as you're researching. And I just write them down as they come with no expectations of the being good. But you know, knowing there'll be the basis for something later.
Ashley Hasty 7:25
Did you develop any favorite resources while you were researching anything that you kept going back to?
Louisa Treger 7:31
Yeah, well, so for Nellie Bly. I think one of the most important parts of the research was actually going to Blackwell's Island, which is now Roosevelt Island, and I went to the site of the lunatic asylum. All that's left is the octagonal tower, which is now part of a gentrified apartment block. But I stood there and I looked out at Manhattan and it's really a stones, it feels like a stone's throw. You can see people on the other side of the water going about their business. But it's it's pretty impossible, because there are strong currents and it nearly blows day there will also patrol boats. But I just thought that must be absolutely gut wrenching for further inmates of the asylum. And I still found and no offense to any Roosevelt Island inhabitants. But I still found there was a slightly sad atmosphere there slightly eerie. And then nearly blys day it was home not only to the asylum, but also to workhouse a prison and a smallpox hospital. So it was literally the iron of the undesirables where, you know, people were shipped off so they wouldn't trouble the minds of ordinary respectable New Yorkers. And I felt that so I think that was going there was terribly important. And then the Library of Congress opened its collections to me. And that was amazing. And I've been back to the Library of Congress several times.
Ashley Hasty 9:10
Do you remember the first time you heard about Nellie Bly?
Louisa Treger 9:13
Yes. Very well. So it started with a question from a friend. And she said, Have you ever heard about Nellie Bly? She's the kind of woman you write about. And I hadn't, but I went away to research her and I was instantly hooked. I mean, it was the story of the asylum. And, you know, thinking what kind of person could have done something like that, you know, especially at the end of the 19th century, when women were supposed to be well behaved and reticent, and it didn't let go of me. I couldn't not write it.
Ashley Hasty 9:47
I usually ask what it is about a real character story, person story that was the initial spark of inspiration, but in Nellies case, I feel like it's so obvious she lives such an extraordinary A life that it
Louisa Treger 10:01
is. So it was her extraordinary courage, you know, she would just throw herself into experiences like the asylum without having a clue, you know how it would end or if she would survive. But she also had great empathy, and particularly great empathy for the marginalized. And I think that came from the fact that she had a very difficult childhood. She knew, you know what it was like to have given up on belonging and joy because her dad died when she was very young, and her mother remarried an abusive alcoholic, but also, Nelly, his newspaper articles got nearly a million pounds extra funding for the care of the mentally ill, and that was in 1887. So that's a huge sum. And also, she pioneered a path for women in newspapers. She uncatalyzed, a new movement, known as Stan toward detective reporting, which was the acknowledged forerunner of investigative journalism. And she really paved the way for successive generations of women journalists to achieve what they did, she created the first real place, you know, on the staff for them. So there was so much to be inspired about. And as I said, I felt I couldn't not tell this story.
Ashley Hasty 11:25
Was there anything in Nelly story that you wish you could have included in the novel but didn't fit your time period? Now? I
Louisa Treger 11:34
finished it up the time. No. But now I finished it, she did so many other interesting things. I mean, for example, she went around the world in less than 80 days beating the record of Phineas folk who is Jill's Burns's fiction fiction lives, you know, hero, but even more interestingly, to me, she married a much older man and ran his manufacturing company when he died. And actually, that would make a novel, someone pointed that out to me having this radical woman, and all these kind of middle managers who are men who are probably scandalized by her. And she was also the first woman report on the frontline of World War One. And she was nearly arrested as a German spies. Imagine the novels that I mean, maybe basically answers I just have to write sequels. To
Ashley Hasty 12:31
me, it sounds like you could have three or four books. This next question is always my favorite, because it inspires me the most, and hopefully other authors who are out there listening to keep working on their craft and chipping away at their goal. So what advice do you have for providers, either those who are newly published, or those hoping to land an agent or a publishing contract?
Louisa Treger 12:54
Well, first of all, I'd say read constantly, and I know opinions and mixed on this, but for me, writing every day, really helps. Whether I'm productive or not, I find that if I you know, block those hours out, something comes eventually even if it's in the shower that night, or the next day, that really helps me, I would say, first drafts are always rubbish. So don't, you know, just don't happen expectations once once you just get it out, because then at least you've got something to work with. Again, for me exercising helps, especially outside because that's where I kind of process my thoughts. And don't be afraid to take constructive criticism. Yeah. Do you find
Ashley Hasty 13:43
that writing was similar to practicing music? Did you practice music everyday to
Louisa Treger 13:49
Yes, yes, yes. And, you know, I find that each day, I get a little bit better. I mean, every day I'm trying to get better but but there is an improvement over a long period of time. I was you know, honing my craft and both.
Ashley Hasty 14:05
Your first piece of advice was to read constantly. So I'm curious. What books have you enjoyed lately?
Louisa Treger 14:12
Okay, well, I am mad about Elizabeth Stroud. And for some reason, I'm binge reading her at the moment. And she's got a new book coming out called Lucy by the sea, which is going to land through my front door in about three days time. So I'm very excited for that. But I'm, I just finished Lucy Barton and I'm currently reading anything as possible. And these are rereads.
Ashley Hasty 14:37
She's wonderful. I do love her books as well. I also want to share how people can find you. What is your website and where do you tend to hang out on social media?
Louisa Treger 14:47
So my website is Louisa trager.com. And I'm on Twitter and Instagram, both as at Louisa Trager, and I'm probably slightly more often on Twitter, but I'm in both places. I love chatting to readers. So you know, to come and say hi.
Ashley Hasty 15:03
I've seen that a lot with writers being on Twitter. That seems to be like the number one place that most writers are hanging out, especially to talk amongst one another, I think,
Louisa Treger 15:13
Well, I think it's because it's more verbal and conversational. I mean, I love Instagram, but I always feel like I'm not very good at it, because I'm not very pictorial.
Ashley Hasty 15:25
Yeah, I think it makes perfect sense that writers tend to gravitate towards Twitter. I love that before we wrap up. Is there anything else you wanted to talk about that we haven't covered?
Louisa Treger 15:33
No, I think you've covered everything. You've been absolutely wonderful.
Ashley Hasty 15:37
Oh, thank you. It was such a pleasure chatting with you today. I'm so pleased to finally met you. I feel like I kind of already knew your group. Or actions. Yes,
Louisa Treger 15:48
No, exactly. And it's so lovely to meet you in person. And I think you're wonderful and you know, thank you for champion authors, championing authors your what you do is greatly appreciated. It's coming