Episode 79: Mansi Shah, author of The Taste of Ginger
Mansi Shah talks about The Taste of Ginger, which Booklist calls “a poignant debut novel, that touches on the immigrant experience in America”.
We chat about how Mansi weaved important themes into a novel which many readers have called “thought-provoking” and makes for great book club conversation.
Also, how growing up with no stories that represented her cultural heritage provided Mansi’s inspiration, and how her perspective on telling an authentic story has changed from when she first started writing ten years ago.
Books Mentioned:
The Taste of Ginger by Mansi Shah ( Bookshop.org / Amazon )
Unbound: My Story of Liberation and the Birth of the Me Too Movement by Tarana Burke (Bookshop.org / Amazon )
Dava Shastri's Last Day by Kirthana Ramisetti (Bookshop.org / Amazon)
Connect with the author:
Transcript:
** Transcript created using AI (so please forgive the typos!) **
Lainey 0:00
Mansi, your debut novel just came out. It's beautiful. It's heartfelt. I loved it, I absolutely adored it. Congratulations.
Mansi Shah 0:09
Thank you so much. Thank you for reading it and for having me on. I'm so excited.
Lainey 0:13
And I love books that take me to a different culture to a different place. And this one took me through the immigrant experience of being Indian born in the United States, but then going back to my home country of India, and dealing with all the challenges of like the different cultural norms and call around like marriage and romance. And there were just so many different themes in this book that I was really impressed with how well you attacked all these issues. But you never felt like you were being preached at like, I love books where I get to the end, and I'm like, Wow, that really made me think, but not in a way where I was like, well, this author is trying to teach me a lesson and you feel it during the book. Is that makes any sense? Yes,
Mansi Shah 0:53
Yes, totally. No. And I, I love those same types of books. So it makes me so happy when people say that I feel like I've had a lot of people say it was thought provoking, or it sat with me afterward. And I thought about things. And I love those kinds of books. So I'm happy to have written one of those types of books. But yeah, you don't want to read something that's, you know, preachy or hitting you over the head with it, like you still want to book that's a story and an escape, but it doesn't hurt if it you know, lingers with you, and you do a little thinking. And I think that's one of the things I love about book club fiction, right? We it sparks discussion, it sparks conversation, and you know, people, people maybe experience something new without leaving their home.
Lainey 1:36
So let's tell folks a little bit about The Taste of Ginger, who may not be familiar with the book, like I said, it just came out at the beginning of January. Give us a little bit more information. If folks haven't heard of it yet. Can you tell them a little bit about the story and why they might want to read it?
Mansi Shah 1:50
Absolutely. So The Taste of Ginger. It's a coming of age story, it follows Preeti Desai, who is born in India and moves to America when she's seven. And she goes back to India at the age of 30, for the first time as an adult. And during that time, she really has to reckon with her family's past and her own sense of identity of not belonging to either India or America and the cost of assimilation. And the her relationship with her mother in particular is explore that generational divide between immigrant families. So she really lands in India and has to reevaluate her entire life. And so you get to go on that journey with her while she's in India.
Lainey 2:39
Yeah, and I loved that. I love books, where people are like a fish out of water. And it's interesting, because you expect when you go back to like, the country that your parents came from, that you'll just fit in, right, that you'll just, you know, you'll you'll understand, because you know, all the norms, and you grew up knowing all of this, but it's not the same, right? When you go back home, or home is a really interesting word, what is supposed to be home, right? It's not the same. And I think that's true for any culture, and anyone who goes home. And so I thought her challenges around how do you balance like, what your parents want, and what tradition says is the right thing to do. But you didn't grow up with those traditions, but you still want to respect them. Really interesting how you took me into her head as a character that was bear with her and struggling through these same things? How did you decide to put all of that together? Like what was the inspiration for a book like this?
Mansi Shah 3:27
So I started writing this book a very long time ago, I started writing it in 2009. And I was I was 29 years old when I started it. But I was a voracious reader as a kid. And I think just being in an immigrant family. So my story's a little bit different from previous I was born in Canada and raised in the States. So I never had that sort of early feeling of belonging that Preetie has in the book, or that someone like my parents have had, because they didn't come to the States until they were adults. And so I, I was such a voracious reader, but I never read any stories that represented my family, or my culture, or our customs and norms. And so when I was 29, I decided I was going to write it, I was going to write that story, that of not belonging to either place. And so I started, I started writing and I started taking writing classes on top of my full time job and and it was, it's been a very long journey since then, but the story has really the essence of the story has been the same since 2009. It was, you know, the same characters, the same elements, the same ending, I just really wanted to explore that identity crisis. It's so many immigrants have, and so I wrote it.
Lainey 4:55
I love it. Well, you said it took a long time, right 10 plus years, and it must have been through revisions and editing not just at your publishing house but yourself, like, how did it change? Or what was the hardest bit? What were the biggest changes as you went through the revision and editing process over all those years?
Mansi Shah 5:11
So I think the biggest, as I said, the main elements all stayed the same. But I think the biggest change was, as I got older, as I evolved as a person, as society, I think started to evolve as well. And as you say, it's been over a decade to publication, I realized I was able to craft a more authentic story. I remember in my early writing classes, I had been told that you had to write for white audience. And so there were that's, that's the readership. And that's where you have to write for. And so I think I'd always been cognizant of that. And so you want you want it to be careful not to say anything that was too controversial to that readership. And so I think all those elements were there, but I definitely hinted at and danced around them in a way, in the early drafts. That is, you know, a lot of that has been taken off in this version that's gone to publication, I think we just we live in a world where a more authentic immigrant story can now be told. And so in some ways, yes, it was a long journey, would it have been nice to get published 10 years ago, maybe, but I wouldn't have written the same book 10 years ago, and I wouldn't have been able to. And so I'm glad in some ways that it took this long to be able to tell this exact story that feels so true. And so authentic.
Lainey 6:38
I think you were very trying to think of the right word. It's not brave when when you tell the truth that is brave, but it's also like forthright with how you deal with like, issues of caste and how she thinks about caste, not only in India, but in the United States, and how class can be its own caste and immigrant versus not in color. And so I thought you were very authentic, to your point with that, and, like, to the point that yeah, there were moments where I was like, Well, I feel a little uncomfortable, like, good. Good. Point. Right.
Mansi Shah 7:08
Right, right. Absolutely. Yeah, the thing is, it's uh, you know, we got everyone has to be a little bit uncomfortable, you know, I should be a little bit uncomfortable, you should be a little uncomfortable. We're all growing, we're all learning that never stops, right. So it's, it's nice to be able to put that in more books now. And I'm just seeing so many books beyond my own, that are doing that, which also, you know, makes me more brave, because you're not doing it alone.
Lainey 7:32
And I love how your voice is authentic. But you also did a really nice job of explaining things when you needed to a non Indian audience. And I'm interested in how you did that, right. Like you, there were certain things that wouldn't have made sense to me unless you had explained them. Because I don't come from that background. How did you decide like what to explain and what not to explain and when to add little explanations very subtly?
Mansi Shah 7:53
That you know that so that's, that's an interesting evolution as well. So when I started in 2009, the the sort of polishing mandate was, foreign words need to be I palletized, and explained, and I think as we evolve, so the early drafts of that did that every single good Rafi word that's in that book was italicized, and explained. But again, as we as society evolved, as I evolved as a writer, you know, it had always, not quite sat well with me. And I didn't understand why until, you know, until I got to this point, and I realized it was, what does foreign mean, they're not foreign to my protagonist. And so it's weird to me, if I'm writing a book about a drazi, American woman, that she would stop and explain what a particular food is, or what a particular dresses she knows. And so that was that was really the way I approached it in these fine in the final version that got published taking out all the italics, those words are foreign to her. And I am I'm, I'm a lawyer by by day. And so you know, they're, I'm pretty fastidious and how I do things. So I googled every single one of those good drop the words myself to see what would come up, or if somebody wanted to go look it up, would they find images or something that would show them what it meant? And so I made sure so I did change some of the words to make them a little easier if someone wanted to Google them. But for the most part, it's, you know, they're eating something, you know, they're wearing something, you know, they're using a term of affection. And there are certain things that I did have, like, for example, the, the title of the book, you can't just leave that there in Hindi and have no one, you know, sort of understand what that meant. And so, you know, I think if it was something that was essential to the story and the development of the story, I tried to weave weave it in without you know, putting up a big stop sign of okay, I'm going to explain this, but if it wasn't that essential to the meaning of the story, I think I like people reading the book and finding it out. Because I will say, and you probably know this as an author yourself. When that title came to me, it was like lightning in a bottle, you know, you have these other titles that you're working with. And it's been the title of that book, I think I came up with that title in 2010, or 11. And it was perfect. And it was one of those things, when I got a publishing deal and went through this process, every author told me, they're gonna change your title doesn't matter what your title that they're gonna change your title. And so I went there, I was sort of with bated breath the entire time. Because I loved this title. I thought it was so multi layered.
Lainey 10:41
I love it, too. I think it's perfect. I really do. And I love that the cover of the book, which if you can see on the corner of the screen, if you're on the video, or if you're not going to the website, you'll see it on the website for Best of women's fiction calm. I love that by the end of the book, I understood why all those elements were on the cover. It wasn't obvious to me many of those elements didn't make sense until after I finished the book. And then I was like that is the best cover. It looked really good. So many different elements of that book on that cover.
Mansi Shah 11:07
Yes, no, the cover designer was fabulous. I am I'm very lucky to say I've got her for my second book. And I'm two for two, I got to keep my title on my second book. So I'm sure my luck will run out.
Lainey 11:21
That's what you said a second book. So when when will we see the second book? Does it have a date already? Is it next year?
Mansi Shah 11:27
It's it's early 2023. So I've just finished the development edits on it. And it's off to production, but it's early 2023.
Lainey 11:37
That's awesome. So I have a quote here that I think is a beautiful quote that actually are a review from Barbara O'Neal, who's been on the show herself. And she's one of the best women's fiction authors out there. She's sold millions and millions of copies. And I respect her so much. I just thought I'd read this for people if they're trying to get a sense of the book and whether they should read it. She says it's a powerful, thoughtful and very accessible book that explores culture in class and both India and America through the eyes of a winning Narrator on a quest to understand both places and where she fits in. And she talks about how it's written with a great sense of curiosity, never judgmental, which is what we talked about. Thoughtful. And it gave me so much to ponder. But it also swept me away in an adventure and gave me relief from my everyday life. A beautiful book that deserves a big audience. Wow, what an amazing review from Barbara that
Mansi Shah 12:29
I can't if you could have if you could have seen me the moment that that review came in from Barbara, you know, it was just just stunning from from start to finish. So Barbara and I share the same editor, Barbara actually sought my book out from the editor. And I didn't even know I to this day don't know how Barbara knew my book existed. You know, when your debut author? How does it How Does anybody know the books not out yet. And so I remember my editor reached out to me. So one of our other authors is requested a copy of your book. Okay, if I send it to her, and she says Barbara said, Of course, it's okay to send my book. Barbara O'Neal? Sure. No big deal. Yeah, go ahead and send her my book. So she, you know, when she read it, she reached out to me and let me know how she had felt about it. And I've read her work. And it's just, you know, when someone like that has has something so kind and so generous to say about your book. I mean, those are those are those highlight moments as
Lainey 13:28
Amazing. And she is such a wonderful supporter of other authors. And you're getting that sense from the story. But yeah, she really Yes. Yes. So advice, as you think about like passing it forward to the next generation of writers. It's such a long journey to get to getting a debut into the world and the work that goes into it. And like you say, the evolution as you grow into your own work in some ways. What advice do you give to people who are maybe a little earlier on that journey than you?
Mansi Shah 13:56
I think, for me, it's keep going keep writing keep going for, for me writing was, you know, I have a full time job that's that, you know, hasn't been writing. And it was, for me writing was the coming home. Writing was when I felt like I was doing exactly what I was supposed to be doing and doing something meaningful. So many different types of fiction now, it's just it's keep going, every voice matters. And whoever you are, your voice matters. And we want, we want to see your work.
Lainey 14:26
I completely agree with everything you said, especially that we are seeing more different types of fiction. I feel like to your point, right there was this like, you must write it to a wide audience. And you must do this. And you must do that. And one of the things that makes me the happiest this thing in the women's fiction genre in the last couple of years, and I don't I don't see it like in the same way going back 20 years. It really is pretty recent, that we're starting to see some amazing new voices like yours that are bringing a different perspective that are bringing a different cultural background which makes me so happy. It's like one of the things we tried to do here on the podcast is pull people who may not have been noticed yet by your average woman's fiction Read it out and say like this one, go read this one. Yes, exactly what I will say about this one. So I loved it. It's getting a five star review from me. Before we wrap up, have you read anything good recently yourself that you might want to recommend?
Mansi Shah 15:13
So when I'm writing, I tend to read more memoir or something maybe a little bit outside of the outside of the genre. So I'm currently doing the audio book of Unbound by Tarana Burke , I heard her speak and then I'm currently reading, I just finished Kirthana Ramisetti's Dava Shastri's Last Day, which I do I have here. And that was just another really unique South Asian voice. I think for me, I was I was 40 years old the first time I read a Gujarati story about a Gujarati family. I mean, that's, you know, but now there's so many different types of stories, you know, the hers, hers has nothing to do with belonging, it's just South Asian people. But probably switch back into fiction now that I'm done writing for a little bit with the second book out.
Lainey 16:04
I'm excited, having loved the first one so much. I'm excited to read the second one. And, um, if folks want to catch up with you on social media, is there a particular platform that you hang out on more than another,
Mansi Shah 16:14
I definitely am better at Instagram, then any of the others. And I'm @MansiShahwrites, but I confess, I'm not the best at social media in general. But that is definitely the one where I hang out the most
Lainey 16:28
Great, and we'll put the links to your website and to your social media, and also the two books that you recommended there, I'll make sure they're in the show notes on the website, so you can find them. And I guess to wrap up, I want to say congratulations, because I've been looking at the reviews on this book. And it was an Amazon first reads in December, right, which is great because it gets into more people's hands, right when it first reads and it's available to Prime members. But here's the thing, normally, when a book is that broad, and it goes out to that many people, the review score goes down and is not as high. And it's because the more people you get to the less people are likely to like it the average excuse lower. Yeah, I am blown away that your book has a 4.2 rating and five reviews.
Mansi Shah 17:10
I know I am really good. Yes, I I'm a little I'm a little shocked that maybe one month out of publication of over 5000 reviews. And you know, the 4.2 is is staggering to me for all the reasons you said you know, a lot of people they have access to a book for free there, they wouldn't have picked it up anyways. And you know, and now they have I am so humbled so honored by the early reader reviews and praise and just the notes the notes I've gotten from immigrants who have said this made me feel seen this made me feel heard. No one's ever described this, like those warm my heart like those really, really do. It's sort of it's I feel like I've done my job. It took 12 years of publication, but I got I got what I wanted.
Lainey 18:03
Congratulations. And I hope you also feel proud not just humbled because you did that. That is all your own hard work. It's a phenomenal book. So I'll just wrap up I think thank you for joining us and encourage folks go get the book and read it. This is such a fun read and also enlightening and thought provoking and all the things you want from a fabulous read and escapist as well. So congratulations and thanks so much for joining me today.
Mansi Shah 18:27
Thank you so much for having me. This was really great.