Episode 135: Chrystyna Lucyk-Berger, author of The Diplomat's Wife Series
Award-winning author Chrystyna Lucyk-Berger talks about her first two books in The Diplomat's Wife series: "The American Wife" and "An American Wife in Paris".
In this gripping World War 2 fiction, we follow the journey of Kitty Larsson, a U.S. senator's daughter whose life takes an unexpected turn when she marries an Austrian diplomat on the cusp of the Anschluss.
As secrets unravel and loyalties are tested, Kitty's unwavering moral compass becomes her guiding light through a landscape of espionage and political intrigue.
The third book, "The American Wife's Secret," has just been released.
Books & Links Mentioned:
The Diplomat's Wife Series by Chrystyna Lucyk-Berger
The American Wife (Bookshop.org / Amazon.com )
An American Wife in Paris (Bookshop.org / Amazon.com )
The American Wife’s Secret (Bookshop.org / Amazon.com )
Still Life by Sarah Winman (Bookshop.org / Amazon.com )
The Ukrainian Night by Marci Shore (Bookshop.org / Amazon.com )
Goodnight From Paris by Jane Healey (Bookshop.org / Amazon.com )
Full Disclosure: We are part of the Amazon and bookshop.org affiliate programs, which means Lainey or Ashley get a tiny commission if you buy something after clicking through from a link on this website.
Connect with the author:
Transcript:
** Transcript created using AI (so please forgive the typos!) **
Edited
[00:00:00] Lainey Cameron: Hi, this is Lainey Cameron. I am here with Chrystyna Lucyk-Berger and I am so excited because I got to read the first two books in this series that we're going to be talking about. And the third one just came out. And because we're recording this a little in advance, I haven't had the chance to read the third one yet.
[00:00:17] Lainey Cameron: So we won't give any spoilers here, but it's actually kind of fun to talk about a series and a historical fiction series. So Chrystyna, thank you for joining me today.
[00:00:27] Chrystyna Lucyk-Berger: Thank you very much. Thanks for having me. I'm really, really glad to be here. You guys do fantastic stuff.
[00:00:33] Lainey Cameron: Oh, thank you so much. And where are you joining me from?
[00:00:35] Lainey Cameron: Where are you in the world?
[00:00:36] Chrystyna Lucyk-Berger: I moved to Western Austria, that's cows, not kangaroos, about 21 years ago. And about 15 years ago, I met my husband. And so now we live in our dream mountain hut, not far away from the city. So it's actually 12 minutes from the city, but it feels like we are out in isolation out here.
[00:00:58] Chrystyna Lucyk-Berger: We have. Mountains and fields. And our first neighbor is about, I don't know, a mile behind us and the next one a mile ahead of us. So it's really idyllic, especially if you're a writer.
[00:01:09] Lainey Cameron: I love it. And I'm sure it's related to your life experience of where you've been and your history is very related to some of these topics and the places that you chose to write about.
[00:01:18] Lainey Cameron: This series that we're going to talk about is just your latest series. You've had many, many historical fiction books, which are loved by readers. This one is the Diplomat's Wife series that starts with the American wife. Why don't you tell people, I'm going to ask you an unusual question here, tell them about this book series, and then also tell them a bit about what you write in general, because people might not be familiar with your work, and you've written such a great body of work, mostly, I believe, historical fiction at this point, but let's start with this series, The Diplomat's Wife.
[00:01:44] Lainey Cameron: Tell people a little bit more about it.
[00:01:46] Chrystyna Lucyk-Berger: Okay, so actually, I am going to reverse your the answer because I think the two are very closely linked and I usually write about things that are have to do with cultural or political conflict and all of my MC’s have their moral compass in hand and have to decide.
[00:02:02] Chrystyna Lucyk-Berger: Is this going to the adversity that I'm facing right now? Is it going to? Bring out the best of me or the worst to me, you know and I think those are the things that I explore the most is what is it that my MC has to do in order to come up to come out on the better side of herself. And I also throw in an awful lot of culture miscommunication, misinformation, because this is also something that I do professionally. I teach business people in communication. And so I bring those psychological aspects into my stories a lot. And this series was born out of a brainstorming session with my editor and she says, “So what do you want to write next?”
[00:02:44] Chrystyna Lucyk-Berger: And I said, “Well, I've got a couple of ideas and they turned them all down.” And they said, “Well, what is it?” Yeah, I know it's like the hottest thing I wanted to write. They said, “No, no, no”. And I thought, great. So now I have to go back to the drawing board. And so one of the things that she asked me was, “What is it that you love about these three books?”
[00:03:02] Chrystyna Lucyk-Berger: “What is it that you want to write about?” And I said, well, there's so much. social divisiveness going on right now. I mean, we are going through a period in our history where we are being really torn apart between deciding that there is black and there's white. And this is one of the things that my books do not do.
[00:03:23] Chrystyna Lucyk-Berger: It does not make heroes out of humans, and it does not make a black and white picture of history. I know that there's a lot of gray matter from the personal histories that I have heard from my family in which I wrote about. So, I said, I would like to write about a couple who are madly in love with each other and that politics, like, starts to tear them apart.
[00:03:49] Chrystyna Lucyk-Berger: And how do they manage and navigate their marriage? And then I said, and “I kind of went to a spy thriller too.” She goes, “Okay, can you combine the two?” And I said, “I have no idea. But if you don't like any of my ideas, I need to go back to the drawing board.” So I happened to be on vacation at that time, and I threw myself into the sea, and I went for a swim.
[00:04:08] Chrystyna Lucyk-Berger: And then right, it was like lightning, obviously. Figuratively, not literally. It was like lightning. I heard the name Kitty Larsson in my head and I had no idea. Is this something that I had heard about seeing, you know, so I Googled the name and it was very specific. It was L-A-R-S- S-O- N. So I Googled the name to find out if somebody already existed.
[00:04:30] Chrystyna Lucyk-Berger: And there wasn't, and I thought, okay, Kitty Larsson, who are you? Tell me about it. And my husband and I drank a bottle of Spanish wine. And by the time we were finished, we realized that we had a pitch and it was about a woman who marries an Austrian diplomat, and then the Anschluss happens. And she discovers that he is not.
[00:04:48] Chrystyna Lucyk-Berger: What he says he is. And how do they navigate their marriage through this? So that was supposed to be one book. And then when I told my girlfriend the story, she said, well, I want to know what happens next. Cause I knew the story would only go to about 1940, 1941. And I said, well, what do you mean what happens next?
[00:05:07] Chrystyna Lucyk-Berger: She goes, yeah, what happens to her next? And I said, I have no idea. But by that time I started doing some research about the Viennese resistance efforts against the Nazis. I knew it would take place in Vienna. That's what I knew. Because it was COVID and it was like the only place I knew I could get to.
[00:05:25] Chrystyna Lucyk-Berger: So I have to choose a setting that I can actually travel to. So I knew it would happen in Vienna. And then my editor asked me, could you not re-write something in Paris? And I'm like, why? I said, everybody's writing about Paris. She goes, exactly. I thought, can we not do something differently? And she said, no, if you could write about Paris, that would be fantastic.
[00:05:50] Chrystyna Lucyk-Berger: So when my girlfriend asked me what happened to Kitty next, I thought, Kitty goes to Paris? Shopping trip? I don't know. You know? But as I was doing research. 1 of the main characters that really inspired Kitty’s personality and her in her trajectory, actually, it was Virginia Hall and Virginia Hall actually did work for SOE in Paris.
[00:06:16] Chrystyna Lucyk-Berger: And then switch to the OSS. So I was using a lot of her story to kind of help me along with Kitty's fictionalized version of the thing. But Kitty is a lot of different people. And then I knew by then that I would have a third book because the resistance story in Vienna was just so fascinating that I had to get Kitty back to Vienna somehow and then ask myself again. How is that going to happen? But I found the answers and it was a ton of fun. I have to say I'm really really glad that my editor challenged me because I had so much fun writing this series. It was a ball.
[00:06:54] Lainey Cameron: I had so much fun reading it. Kitty is a great character.
[00:06:58] Lainey Cameron: She comes from a little bit of a privileged background and that she's an ambassador's daughter or a senator's daughter. Right? But then she's so courageous and she's faced with all these moral dilemmas. Like, you say, like, what if you love the person who's not supposed to be the person you love, but you also want to honor.
[00:07:14] Lainey Cameron: Your own moral beliefs and your country. And, and she ends up getting into, like you say, the spy world, espionage world. And so there's resistance. And so I thought that was just fascinating how you mixed all of those elements together. And it's a great fun read. I mean, I set out to read the first book thinking, okay, we're going to talk about the series.
[00:07:30] Lainey Cameron: I should at least read the first one. And I was like downloading the second one before I'd even finished the first one, because I was like, “No, I must read the whole series though. I can't let this story go.” And now you're going to make me wait for number three, which is a little unfair, but for those who are listening.
[00:07:42] Lainey Cameron: They can actually read through all three, which is what I can't do because it's at night.
[00:07:46] Chrystyna Lucyk-Berger: Yes, by the time this appears live, this will, yep, the third one is ready. And I just read the first NetGalley review and I clapped because she said it was like being hit by a freight train. And I thought, super, super.
[00:08:00] Chrystyna Lucyk-Berger: Yeah.
[00:08:01] Lainey Cameron: You get that edge of your seat. Like I'm, Oh yes. I love that. When I read a book where it keeps me engaged and I can't put it down. So talk to me a little bit about the research, because I know you mix real life and fictitious characters. And what does that look like in terms of how you do your research for this kind of historical fiction based in World War II?
[00:08:18] Chrystyna Lucyk-Berger: Because now I'm a faster writer than I used to be, my first book took me 20 years. And this one, I mean, to do a first draft for me, it's about four and a half months. And I have learned to research as I write. So my first question is to identify what is my What is my character going through? What are her needs?
[00:08:38] Chrystyna Lucyk-Berger: What are her wants? What does she have to change about herself to achieve what it is that she sets out to achieve? So I have a rough idea of what's going on in history when I set out to write a book or when I outline it. And what I choose to include are the things that would directly affect my MC.
[00:08:59] Chrystyna Lucyk-Berger: So if, for example, during the Anschluss, Kitty is working at the American consulate. And so obviously these Jewish immigrants coming in and lining up and trying to get a visa is going to affect her. And I stumbled on an article for the first book about two men who ran the consulate at the Anschluss.
[00:09:21] Chrystyna Lucyk-Berger: And during the Anschluss, there was a management change and,
[00:09:25] Lainey Cameron: And for those who are not familiar with the answers, just if they're not history buffs and they haven't read it, tell us a little bit about what that what you mean when you say that moment in history,
[00:09:32] Chrystyna Lucyk-Berger: It's when Austria was forced to join the 3rd that I, so Hitler threatened war and was going to march in and Austria just said, “Yeah, okay, whatever. Take us.” And they were, they claimed to be the first victims of Hitler, and that was in 1938. So while Kitty's working at this consulate she realizes that the guy who is taken over is not very concerned about the humanity aspect of the thing, or the situation of the Jewish immigrants.
[00:10:03] Chrystyna Lucyk-Berger: These are the things that kind of drive her, you know, and I knew that I knew that anger would drive her. And I knew that finding out that her husband's interest seems to lie in just climbing the regime's ladder in his career also angers her, you know, and this happens to also be one of her weaknesses because she becomes, as you know, from reading the book, she's sometimes very You know, spontaneous is not the right word, but you know, like, very great.
[00:10:28] Lainey Cameron: She's a firecracker. Yeah. I don't know how else to say it. Like, yeah. Yeah.
[00:10:32] Chrystyna Lucyk-Berger: So she has a temper. Mm hmm. Yes.
[00:10:35] Lainey Cameron: And, and do you, are you, when you choose real life characters to mix in real life people to mix in historical figures, do you have to give that a lot of thought? Like, like I'm fascinated because I don't write historical fiction myself.
[00:10:47] Lainey Cameron: Like, how does that come about? Do you just say, okay, yeah, this person fits in the book or do you have to say like, Is it exactly historically accurate that they could have been in this city at this moment in time on this day of the week? Or, like, how do you think about how to deal with real people as they're part of that?
[00:11:00] Lainey Cameron: It's
[00:11:01] Chrystyna Lucyk-Berger: Interesting because I think in this case, these 2 managers in the consulate were so fascinating. I wanted to keep their real names and. What I did was I read their memos. So I even like a lot of the dialogues that they are having in the book are coming from the memos themselves that they had written.
[00:11:19] Chrystyna Lucyk-Berger: And so if I can capture that, if I can capture their voice and their character easily, because there's research available for it, I have no qualms about using them and fictionalizing them. Otherwise, I get a lot of anecdotes from different aspects of the resistance that was happening in Austria at that time or in Germany.
[00:11:38] Chrystyna Lucyk-Berger: And because I can't build every single character in what I end up doing is using those anecdotes and maybe sub-characters that will be that drive that story at times, you know, who might act those anecdotes out or assign those anecdotes either to Edgar Kitty's husband or Kitty, or maybe 1 of her her allies.
[00:12:01] Chrystyna Lucyk-Berger: So that's why I kind of do it, if I decide who really needs to be there as a real person. And then the other stuff that I pull in is driven by the other fictional characters.
[00:12:13] Lainey Cameron: That's very clever. And I know you've said that you like to kind of write books that tackle, and you talked about this at the beginning, preconceived notions, right?
[00:12:21] Lainey Cameron: We all have these preconceived notions of other people, of history, of politics, like how does that play out for you? And are there any examples even in this book of how it plays out?
[00:12:30] Chrystyna Lucyk-Berger: And the whole series actually, because each one, it was something where I thought, whoa, I did not know that. And I don't think the majority of people know that.
[00:12:38] Chrystyna Lucyk-Berger: So for the first book in the American Wife, which is when the Nazis take over Austria, my discovery of how resistant allied nations were in helping the Jews to emigrate was surprising. And how very anti-Semitic FDR's administration was Roosevelt's administration that blew my mind because we learned about heroic achievements.
[00:12:57] Chrystyna Lucyk-Berger: Americans made World War II, but we never think about the black marks that we've left along the way.
[00:13:03] Lainey Cameron: And you portrayed that really well, right? The idea that people are lining up at the embassy, trying to get out of the country because their lives are in danger and, you know, they're getting, heck no.
[00:13:12] Lainey Cameron: Right. Like, like all the stuff that we see happening to immigrants today. Right. And it really felt very close to home as I was reading that and hearing, you know, reading that those scenes where she's trying to help those Jewish immigrants get out of Austria at a point that their lives are in danger and they're getting told, no, we have a quota and we don't have space.
[00:13:28] Lainey Cameron: We have a quota. Yeah. Right. We have a quota. Like that sounds a little too close to home today. Yeah.
[00:13:33] Chrystyna Lucyk-Berger: And again, it was that divisiveness, it is what starts dividing up people from, you know, to stand either, it's all black or it's all white. And this is where I stand and there is no middle, you know, and that's exactly where Kitty starts getting really frustrated.
[00:13:48] Chrystyna Lucyk-Berger: In the second book, I tackle the fact that the allies knew what was going on in Nazi concentration camps long before the first liberated one. And people were giving up their lives to tell them about it and trusted the allies to stop it. So they were escaping out of these camps. They had organizations, resistance organizations within the camps that were trying to get people out with the information.
[00:14:11] Chrystyna Lucyk-Berger: There was a plea from the Polish resistance within Auschwitz that was begging the British and the Poles to bomb the camp. And they were prepared to lay their lives for that because of the things that were happening in the camp. And we don't hear about that very often.
[00:14:26] Lainey Cameron: And the third, and I mean, we all know the story after the fact of the atrocities of Auschwitz.
[00:14:31] Lainey Cameron: I'm probably saying it wrong, but like knowing that I didn't know that, that for a long time, the allies had the information about what was happening, but did not act on it. Like I did not know that.
[00:14:40] Chrystyna Lucyk-Berger: Yeah. And the last book was about the Austrian resistance. I highlight the Austrian resistance in that third book and how they worked together with the Americans because there was a big, you know, they were very worried about the Soviets taking control of Europe after the war.
[00:14:55] Chrystyna Lucyk-Berger: And so they were sending Special Ops into fortress Germany, as they called it. And in the third book, I really highlight the people or highlight the people who gave up their lives. To fight the regime, so the Austrians who were fighting against the Nazis and for decades, these people were seen as traitors until Austria was forced to confront its role in Nazism, but they were considered traitors at that time.
[00:15:22] Lainey Cameron: Well, let's talk about what you've learned as a writer and author. I love the fact that you said your first one took 20 years and that now you can draft a book in four and a half months. Tell those of us who are back closer to the 20 year period, which would be me and lots of authors with one or two books under their belt, what did that journey look like and what was the biggest difference maker. I'm fascinated by being able to write faster now than you did at the beginning, right? I think it's a very normal journey, but you know, what have you learned? What advice do you have for writers along the way?
[00:15:52] Chrystyna Lucyk-Berger: There is no such thing as writer's block. There might be tough days. I don't grant you that, but I think it's like any craft or skill that you're trying to learn.
[00:16:02] Chrystyna Lucyk-Berger: You have to show up every day and you have to practice. And that is the journey. It becomes easier and easier with every book because you know, you begin to trust your process. That's it. It's managing to learn what your process is and what works best for you. And I used to be a pantser, which is somebody who just writes off the top of their head and I have had to cut out up to in my very first book, I think it was like 40, 000 words because it went into.
[00:16:34] Chrystyna Lucyk-Berger: A completely different genre. So I started to outline the rest of that book and I realized, oh my gosh, I'm writing a series, but I haven't outlined all of the books. Maybe that would be important to do. So outlining was the first thing that I learned to do which I hated to do ever since college, because again, I'm, I'm, I like to write freely.
[00:16:54] Chrystyna Lucyk-Berger: I like to be creative. And I thought that an outline would not allow me to be creative, but I can tell you right now an outline. Not only does it let you be creative, it's like having a map. It takes you on a journey of self discovery. You know that you need to go from point A to point B if you have an outline.
[00:17:12] Chrystyna Lucyk-Berger: How you get there is completely up to your character sometimes and up to you, you know? So, you'll still be able to stop off and see the greatest ball of yarn on the way to point B. And then decide you're going to keep that in your, you know, in your photograph album along your journey. But you, you get to take all of these aspects and winding roads that you want to.
[00:17:35] Chrystyna Lucyk-Berger: And then, if you are really confident in your storytelling skills, you will learn to be hard on yourself and with and trust your critics and they will let you know. What's working, what's not working. And the second thing is if you want to be an author, so that's a writer. I draw a distinction between being a writer and an author, a published author.
[00:17:56] Chrystyna Lucyk-Berger: Because the next step is really, once you have your craft down and once you feel comfortable as a storyteller, you would then need to start treating your product, which is your manuscript, your book as a product that you will put out on the market. And I run a business. So something that came very early on to me was.
[00:18:14] Chrystyna Lucyk-Berger: It's the idea that I can't do everything. I'm not good at everything. I'm not good at marketing and analytics and data and not good at making book covers. So when I was looking for a publisher, I was looking for somebody who was going to be my business partner. And I feel that most authors are waiting for a publisher to come and take them to discover them and then launch their careers.
[00:18:38] Chrystyna Lucyk-Berger: But that's not how it works. It's a business like any other business. And that means you have to work hard, put in the hours, put in the sweat, put in the doubt, put in the tears and the laughter, but you find a partner who can do the things that you want done for your product and for your career. And that is what a publisher is there for not to save you.
[00:18:59] Chrystyna Lucyk-Berger: Not to send you to the stars, but to help you run your business.
[00:19:04] Lainey Cameron: I love that. I think the same goes for an agent and a publisher and anyone you pick to work with that. It's a partnership. And I do see this where authors think, I think part of it is. Authors have to go, writers have to go through so many gatekeepers to get that publishing deal if they're going down the traditional path.
[00:19:21] Lainey Cameron: And so by the time they get that publishing deal, you know, they've, they've kind of begged at the door of the agent and then they begged at the door of the publisher. It kind of feels like you're on your heels, right? As a writer is just what I observe. And so by the time they get there, you 're often surprised that the publisher isn't going to just grab their book and do everything for them and own their career for them.
[00:19:39] Lainey Cameron: And I completely agree with what you're saying, which is you own your career and you're making a series of decisions as an author at each moment in your career on who your best partner is. And I think it really is seen differently now in that people go back and forth between. Okay. So I had a reason that that particular publisher was great for me.
[00:19:54] Lainey Cameron: And now maybe I'm going to go indie, but this next series, because it belongs as an indie series. And then I'm going to kind of come back to a different traditional publisher. Like people go in and out of publishing models now. And I think when you're starting your career as a writer, it can feel the opposite.
[00:20:07] Lainey Cameron: It can feel like a mountain that you're trying to climb. And each step you get there, you're a little higher up the mountain. And you think that when you get to the top, you'll just stand on the top and wave your flag and someone will be doing it for you and it doesn't work that way. Right. And so I love that you said that.
[00:20:18] Lainey Cameron: I think that's a really, really insightful way to say it. So last question before we wrap up, and I'm going to encourage people to go check out, starting with The American Wife, this series, which is just fabulous. Last question for you is any books you would recommend if you were to pick one right now that you would say, I read this and other people might enjoy it?
[00:20:36] Chrystyna Lucyk-Berger: So I read both fiction and historical fiction, all fiction and nonfiction. And I just finished Sarah Winman's Still Life, which I absolutely loved. I heard that Alicia Fock has a new book out. I might have to shuffle through my TBR pile and move that up. I read The Ukrainian Night by Marci Shore, which I highly recommend.
[00:20:56] Chrystyna Lucyk-Berger: If you don't know anything about Ukraine or are confused about what's going on in Ukraine, it is a very good book to start with. It talks about the revolution in 2014, and it is excellent. That's Marci Shore’s The Ukrainian Knight, and right now I'm listening to Goodnight from Paris.
[00:21:15] Lainey Cameron: Wonderful.
[00:21:15] Lainey Cameron: Wonderful. Thank you. I'll put all of those on the website. We always put the links to all of the books at Best Women's Fiction. com because when you're listening, it's very hard to catch them all that fast, but you can find them all on the website. And talking of where we can find people online, if folks want to follow you, know about your future work, know what you're up to, where is the best place for them to connect and keep up to date with you?
[00:21:36] Chrystyna Lucyk-Berger: So my newsletter has, you can choose your own segments so you can decide what kind of information you're going to get from me on my website at inktreks.com. I also do a historical blog there for all of my books. So I usually do background articles about. So if you're interested in how my research comes, you know, accumulated into my novels, that's where you go.
[00:21:58] Chrystyna Lucyk-Berger: And otherwise my Facebook is probably my favorite platform. That's where I hang out on my Facebook author page.
[00:22:05] Lainey Cameron: Perfect. And I'll just wrap up by saying that I always look at the reviews for a book before I'm talking with the author on the podcast and. I found it interesting that the two words gripping and captivating which show up and I think in the subtitle possibly with also the most two common words and reviews like they came up again and again and again, people describe this book as gripping and captivating and I completely agree.
[00:22:27] Lainey Cameron: So, congratulations on writing such a phenomenal series and thanks for joining me today.
[00:22:32] Chrystyna Lucyk-Berger: Thank you. Thanks for having me.