Episode 129: Chanel Cleeton, New York Times Bestselling author of The Cuban Heiress
NYT and USA TODAY bestselling author Chanel Cleeton is the author of many superb novels including Next Year in Havana, When We Left Cuba, The Last Train to Key West, and more.
Her latest release, The Cuban Heiress, follows two women in 1934 with secrets. They set sail aboard the Morro Castle—a luxury cruise liner that sailed between New York and Havana.
Chanel shares her inspiration for a story described by prior guest, Madeline Martin as “a delicious slice of vengeance as two women risk everything for justice.” Plus Lainey asks how Chanel keeps finding inspiration after so many bestsellers?
Books & Links Mentioned:
The Cuban Heiress by Chanel Cleeton (Bookshop.org / Amazon.com )
Next Year in Havana by Chanel Cleeton (Bookshop.org / Amazon.com )
The Most Beautiful Girl in Cuba (Bookshop.org / Amazon.com )
The Cuban Heiress on The Hasty Book List
Her Lost Words: A Novel of Mary Wollstonecraft and Mary Shelley by Stephanie Marie Thornton (Bookshop.org / Amazon.com )
Queen of Exiles by Vanessa Riley (Bookshop.org / Amazon.com )
Island Queen by Vanessa Riley (Bookshop.org / Amazon.com )
Sister Mother Warrior by Vanessa Riley (Bookshop.org / Amazon.com )
Full Disclosure: We are part of the Amazon and bookshop.org affiliate programs, which means Lainey or Ashley get a tiny commission if you buy something after clicking through from link on this website.
Connect with the author:
Book Club Kit & Questions for The Cuban Heiress
Transcript:
** Transcript created using AI (so please forgive the typos!) **
Lainey Cameron
I am absolutely thrilled this book was such a fun read. And I'm gonna say upfront though that I know one person in the universe who is super disappointed that this is Lainey and I get to do this interview because Ashley Hasty has been your biggest fan forever. And so I know my co host, who has her little baby Miles right now is super disappointed that she couldn't be here with you today.
Chanel Cleeton
I'm so sad to miss her. But I really appreciate you having me on the podcast and to be able to chat about books with you.
Lainey Cameron
No problem. Well, let's get into it. I had a chance to read the Cuban Heiress. I've read several of your other books. I've loved them all. This one has a big kind of air of mystery to it. And I love that mystery element that I was flipping pages. I read it in, honestly, less than a weekend. I think I had it on Saturday and a tiny bit of Sunday morning, I was going that fast. Tell us more because it just came out just in April. And so a lot of people won't have had a chance to read it yet. Tell us more about the book
Chanel Cleeton
The Cuban Heiress is set in 1934. And it's a set on a luxury cruise liner. It's a real life ship, it was called the SS Morro Castle, and it would sail on a round trip voyage from New York to Havana. And on its final voyage, tragically, it caught fire. And so I really when I learned about the ship, I was really drawn to kind of the natural mystery surrounding the voyage. There are a lot of sort of unanswered questions about the fire's origins, there was also the fact that the captain died a few hours before onboard the ship before the fire broke out. So there was a lot of, you know, fact being kind of Stranger Than Fiction in terms of a really interesting voyage and a really interesting setting for a book. And then you also have the external factors like the fact that the Great Depression is going on, you have the recent end of the Cuban Revolution of 1933, and also the recent end of prohibition. And so I wanted to delve into this a bit more. And I created these two fictional characters Elena and Katherine, a Cuban woman and an American woman whose lives sort of intersect aboard the Morro Castle.
Lainey Cameron
And I loved both characters. They're really strong characters. I mean, it's a cliche to say strong female characters, but they really are one of them has vengeance in mind. The other we don't know exactly in the earliest what her motivation is, but I love the fact that they are they're kickass, right? Like these women are not not like weak, you know, historically portrayed, I have no empowerment women, I love the fact that they both had very clear goals. And they were going after them. Where did the inspiration for you know, both the book and the characters like that come from?
Chanel Cleeton
I love to kind of honor that and explore it further in my work. And I wanted to have these two characters that obviously are very much defined by the circumstances that are going on around them. And you sort of see the political and economic and social conditions playing out in their lives, but also who are very driven by their own goals. And you see that kind of unfold on the ship. And that's one of the mysteries, you know, they both have a lot of secrets in their past. They both have kind of difficult backstories in terms of you know, what they've been through, they've been forged kind of by these difficult experiences that they've been through. And they're both very intent on on what they're seeking aboard the ship and that kind of unfurls as the novel continues.
Lainey Cameron
Well, I sometimes love to read a quick blurb. And interestingly, I noticed in your kind of endorsements before this book came out that Madeline Martin, who was on the podcast actually talking about The Librarian, Spy, she talks about your book, and I'll just tell folks who would want to get a sense of it that she says "Chanel serves as a delicious slice of vengeance, as to women risk everything for justice, the backdrop of the SS Morro Castle unfolds a chapter of history, those little known and brings the harrowing journey of that fateful voyage to life." And she calls it a fabulous gripping reads, which is a lovely way to say I found to be exactly the same. Like I said, I was flipping the pages. I loved it. I have a question for you around the series of Cuba books. So it's kind of related to your inspiration. You've written several books. Now they've all done phenomenally well, all based around different elements of Cuban American history. How do you keep finding ideas and inspiration again, and again, because each one is so fascinating and intriguing? Like, how do you approach that?
Chanel Cleeton
So I'm a Cuban American, my family came from Cuba in 1967, as refugees after the revolution. And so I really am just inspired about learning more about my history and my ancestry and kind of looking at those intersections between Cuban and American history. I'm originally from Florida. And so I always love a story of Florida element, you know, anything that kind of helps me understand the past a little bit better. And so I've just been really fortunate to be able to, you know, my first few historical fiction books sort of follow this fictional Perez family that I have created through various points in in Cuban history and learn more about it. And then with the Cuban Heiress, that kind of a little bit of a departure and that there are new characters that are not connected with the present family, but it gave me that opportunity once again, to study a lesser known moment and keep it in American history. You know, when this tragedy occurred, it really dominated national news in Cuba and in the United States at the time, but it's something that you know, until I was researching my previous book and came across them Attention of the ship I was previously unfamiliar with. So it was really fascinating to be able to delve deeper into this subject.
Lainey Cameron
Yeah, I was completely unfamiliar, actually, even until the end of the book. And then of course, there was on Wikipedia going, Oh, how do they not know about this learning all about a moment in history, because of you and your novel? I would be remiss if I didn't ask Ashley Hasty's favorite question, which is research process, because I know she's gonna be like, I'm not here, but you need to ask my question. So tell us a little bit more. How do you approach the whole process of research?
Chanel Cleeton
So it's really different with each book with my first book, that was historical fiction. Next year in Havana, you know, I had such a strong personal connection growing up in a Cuban household and hearing about the revolution, you know, firsthand from people who lived through it, that that book, I really kind of wrote and then researched as I went along, to kind of fill in any gaps. But a lot of that was a very personal connection for me. And so I had that kind of starting point for the novel with some of my books that venture a little bit further into human history. So like, The Most Beautiful Girl in Cuba, which I wrote, which is about the Cuban fight for independence from Spain, which was a an event I was a little less familiar with going into it, I did a lot of front loaded research. And so I researched quite a bit and then would start writing. And then you know, as you go, you sort of fill in, if there's questions that crop up, or little, kind of historical rabbit holes, what I like to call them that you sort of go down.
Chanel Cleeton
In the writing process with The Cuban Heiress, you know, I did a lot of so you know, you're going on this week long voyage with them. That's this round trip from New York to Havana, I knew that it was going to have to be plotted very carefully to follow the actual historical timeline of what the ship's voyage was, and, you know, certain events had to happen at certain times. But it's always the question of how do you get them there? And how do you get them through the historical event that, for me, is really fascinating. So with this book, because there was kind of a subsequent investigation after the fire, there are a lot of primary sources in terms of interviews that were done, you know, a lot of the investigatory reports are available, there's been some nonfiction written about it. So there were a lot of resources there. And then having written quite a few books now set in the 1930s, that was incredibly helpful just to have a broader understanding of, you know, what the situation was like in Cuba and the US at the time.
Lainey Cameron
So you obviously do tons of research, like your example of I want to make sure the right things happen day by day as they actually unfold on the ship. Do you ever get readers to write to you and say, like, this happened 20 minutes later than that happened? Or like, does anyone actually track it that closely?
Chanel Cleeton
I mean, sure, especially when you're dealing with more recent history, there are obviously going to be possibly people that have lived through an event or have a family member who have lived through an event, I think a lot of historical fiction authors that I speak with, you know, at the end of the day, it is absolutely historical fiction, you know, I'm not a historian, by trade, I am not writing nonfiction, I'm not writing it in an academic setting. So it's kind of that delicate balance of wanting to make sure that I am faithful and authentic to the historical record, as best as you can be. Because truthfully, sometimes the historical record will even have contradictions in it.
Chanel Cleeton
I mean, if you think about a modern event that happens, you know, people perceive things differently, people have different experiences, you know, things can get kind of confused, or perhaps, you know, a mistake can be made, and then it's kind of forever entered in the historical record. So it's one of those things you just sort of grapple with as an author, but I want to be as authentic as I possibly can be to the event and to the experience.
Chanel Cleeton
And then I also, you know, write these books, ultimately, for my readers to be entertained, you know, I want them to feel like they're learning something. But also, there's that fictional component of transporting them onto the ship, introducing them to these characters who are not based in, you know, actual characters who are on the ship, but are really, I think, hopefully guides for them that they can feel like they're taking the voyage with and can be entertained, and also learn about this event.
Lainey Cameron
You did that. So well. How do you deal with dialogue? It's always I don't write historical fiction, I write contemporary. But I've always wondered, because if you were to write truly historical dialogue, it would, it would be very hard for the current day reader to read it because we don't talk the same way. I know you kind of insert words, but like, how do you draw the line of how to make the dialogue feel right, but also like, say, the entertaining and consumable today's reader, and today's reader is reading, you know, today's language.
Chanel Cleeton
So I think that's definitely an artistic choice that kind of everyone makes at the beginning, when they're writing a book for me, I do want it to be accessible. And I think that's, you know, important for me when I'm telling my stories, but I also try to be careful that it's authentic. So one thing I'll use is, like, I'll look at the etymology of phrases and see what was in common usage at the time. So sometimes, you know, you'll have like a great idiom that you'll realize, Oh, that wasn't used until 1982. So I can't put that in my book. And so it's things like that, where you kind of learned a flag. I mean, sometimes you'll have a great copy editor when you're going through copy edits, and they will flag certain passages. And that's always so helpful. When you have that outside perspective.
Chanel Cleeton
Sometimes it's just something in edits that you kind of learn to pick up. You know, I think with language, we all tend to kind of have similar words or phrasing or descriptions that we go back to and so if you learn, you know, in the 1950s book that you can't put it in because it was 1980 You know, you're writing a 1930s book, it's like that has stuck with you that, you know, that's a phrase that wouldn't have been in common usage at the time. So it's little things like that. I mean, once again, you know, I definitely do not profess to be an academic when it comes to writing, you know, these books. And I think there's so many historians that do beautiful jobs with, you know, nonfiction. So I always want to balance, making sure my readers enjoy the book, and that I'm kind of honoring my creative process, but also having it be authentic for them.
Lainey Cameron
That makes perfect sense. I'm very interested in your editing process. And especially because you've done this whole series of Cuba based books at this point, how has it changed, and that those weren't even your first books, right? You've written many books at this point? Is it different for every book? Or has it become kind of similar as you've got into more of a groove, like touch was about editing and what that looks like.
Chanel Cleeton
So I think the process is actually pretty similar. You know, the more I think about it, I wrote romance before I wrote historical fiction. And so I really kind of got my rhythm I think there in terms of how I like to do things, how I like to write, and one of the biggest shifts probably, and I can never remember which book I did it. But at one point, I moved into Scrivener. And so I draft in Scrivener now. And that has been really useful, particularly with historical fiction, because I like the format of it, I do a lot of multiple timelines, multiple points of view. And so you know, when I want to break chapters, or when I want to change POV, or time period can often be a fluid process throughout edits in the book. And so working in Scrivener really enables me to kind of move those scenes around and get it easily into the order I want without kind of the daunting thing of like cutting and pasting and you know, worrying that you're gonna accidentally lose something or put it in the wrong place. So I like that aspect of it. And it's a hugely important to me, I revise quite a bit, I am very much a pantser, what we kind of call in the writing industry where I write by the seat of my pants, I don't plot a ton when I start a book, I know the event that I'm going to be writing about I loosely know where I'm gonna end up often I kind of hear those main characters voices in my ear.
Chanel Cleeton
So I know whose story I'm going to be telling and why I'm telling it. But I don't always necessarily know different bits of the story and the different plot points. And so that really comes out for me in the drafting process. So what I've had to learn is just sort of have the freedom to let myself explore and not feel the pressure of OH, you have to do this, or Oh, the 500 words you wrote today are terrible, you know, I've just kind of had to learn to let this be like my free space that no one's gonna read about me. And I get to play with it as much as I need to. And then once the book goes to my editor, and we start the revision process, I mean, really, that's where I think you almost go from like being your biggest fan and giving yourself all this freedom to being like your harshest critic, and all of a sudden be like, Oh, that lines terrible, or like, this scene doesn't work. Why did I do this to myself, and then cutting all of that out? I actually love the editorial process, probably it's different. I don't I can't say that. I love it more than drafting. But there is something about the editorial process, I do really love. I'm editing a book right now. And I think it feels less daunting in a way because when you're drafting there's that blank page and like the word count, that kind of feels like a pressure for you. Whereas when you're editing the stories there, you're just shaping it.
Speaker 1
I think that's fascinating that you're more of a pantser. Because in a book like this that has this mystery that's kind of unfurled over the course of the novel, did you have to go back and kind of work out what to tell people when in the editing process
Chanel Cleeton
A little bit, I will say I tend to kind of be lucky that sometimes it just kind of works out, it usually just kind of unfolds in a way that I'm pretty happy with and then maybe adds more details or something. So it's it's been my process. I've tried plotting some books, and you know, some I've plotted more than others. But for me, I feel like the magic kind of comes from the unknown, because that's when I'm surprised. And I feel like if I'm surprised, and I feel like it's an adventure for me, it'll be like that for my reader. So I tried to kind of capture that spirit.
Lainey Cameron
That's cool. It came across really well. And this one I was, like I said, looking to just trying to find out what was really happening. This is a good moment to transition into writing advice. What advice do you give to people who are much earlier in their careers than where you are now?
Chanel Cleeton
I think the biggest thing that I've learned and I'm still learning, to be honest, is perseverance. You know, this is a hard industry, I definitely you know, when people read my bio, it always feels like a little bit of a highlight reel. And it doesn't show all the rejections that I've gone through at various points in my career. And to be honest, like, I'm pretty sure I'll still go through when you're in a creative industry, you know, there's definitely ebbs and flows. And it can be really hard to kind of put yourself out there and you'd be an agent rejection or publisher rejection and to feel like oh, this might never happen. But I think just having that passion for what you do and letting that kind of carry you through and you know, continually just working at your craft and trying to get better and writing more books. It's an ongoing relationship. I think you have with yourself creatively that you have to really kind of invest in and believe in because it's tough and it can have those moments where you definitely feel self doubt, but it's that passion that kind of carries you through.
Lainey Cameron
Yeah, one of my favorite things submit the podcast is we've had a not a lot of really well known authors who have sold, you know, in the millions of copies come on and talk about their challenges, right? Like these were the moments where I was like so down and it didn't work out. And I think it's very inspiring for earlier career authors to realize that, you know, it's, it's, it's ups and downs, like you said, right, it's not smooth sailing.
Chanel Cleeton
That would be pretty nice. That would be great. But unfortunately, I think for the vast majority of us, no, it's unfortunately not. Not really.
Lainey Cameron
Well, I know our listeners love this question. When an awesome author like you can tell us what books have you enjoyed, or would you recommend that you've read recently?
Chanel Cleeton
So I have heard some amazing books recently, I read a lot of historical fiction ARCs. I've been really fortunate to read some books that are coming out I read it's recently out Stephanie Marie Thornton's Her Lost Words was phenomenal. It's a dual timeline. Mother Daughter, Mary Wollstonecraft and Mary Shelley that that I really love. I have Vanessa Riley's Queen of Exiles up on my TBR I've loved her historical fiction. Island Queen was phenomenal and Sister Mother Warrior. So I really love her books. And I'm excited to read that one.
Lainey Cameron
I'm actually excited. I'm trying to get Vanessa on in the fall season. I'm hoping she'll come talk to us later in the year. So yeah, yeah,
Chanel Cleeton
Her books are amazing.
Lainey Cameron
One last question. Is there anything? I haven't asked you that you want to make sure you talk about relative to your writing in general, or to this latest novel? The Cuban Heiress?
Chanel Cleeton
I don't think so. This was so wonderful. This is honestly one of my favorite parts of releasing a book is getting to chat about books and writing. So thank you so much for having me. And please tell Ashley, I said, Hi, I'm so sorry that I missed her. But I really appreciate all her support. I remember one of my first Absolutely, or years ago, so
Lainey Cameron
yeah, absolutely. I know. She just did a feature release article on The Cuban Heiress on The Hasty Book List as well. And if folks want to find you, I'll say that I noticed that you have some great book club questions. I actually downloaded the PDF, which had a really beautiful blue book cup club kit for The Cuban Heiress for our listeners, if you've got a book club, it would be a great book club book to consider. Is there anything else in terms of where people can find you like if they want to follow you? Where's the best spot.
Chanel Cleeton
So my website is ChanelCleeton.com. And I have book club kits that my publisher puts together for all of my books, and they're gorgeous. They do such an amazing job. And then I'm on Instagram and Facebook as well. So I love to chat with readers there.
Lainey Cameron
Perfect. And we'll put all the links on the episode page at bestof womensfiction.com. for that and also for the books that we talked about earlier. And I just want to say thank you. It's been a delight to get to meet you and chat with you today.
Speaker 2
Thank you, thank you so much and thank you for reading the book. I really appreciate it.