Episode 101: Catherine Adel West, author of The Two Lives of Sara
Catherine Adel West talks about her sophomore novel, THE TWO LIVES OF SARA, which is set in the midst of the civils right movement in 1960s Memphis. She talks about how it is a companion novel to her debut, SAVING RUBY KING, and how her writing process differed between writing a contemporary book versus a historical book. In addition, she shares great advice for writers and we share lots of laughs.
Cara shares her inspiration for the story described as a “deeply felt” page-turner, which explores a mother’s worst nightmare – when her daughter is responsible for a fatal texting and driving accident.
Find Book Club Questions and Catherine’s recipe for super moist poundcake here through our collaboration with Book Club Bites! As Catherine says “This is a rich, moist delicious pound cake recipe. But, in the novel, there's a running joke about a woman at the church, named Sister Dorothy Ann, who makes pound cake. It really dry and no one eats it, but it's presented on all church occasions because she's a church elder.”
Books Mentioned:
The Two Lives of Sara by Catherine Adel West (Bookshop.org / Amazon.com )
Beale Street Dynasty by Preston Lauterbach (Bookshop.org / Amazon.com )
Love Times Infinity by Lane Clarke (Bookshop.org / Amazon.com )
Savvy Sheldon Feels Good as Hell by Taj McCoy (Bookshop.org / Amazon.com )
A Little Life by Hanya Yanagihara (Bookshop.org / Amazon.com )
Half-Blown Rose by Leesa Cross-Smith (Bookshop.org / Amazon.com )
Connect with the author:
Transcript:
** Transcript created using AI (so please forgive the typos!) **
Ashley Hasty 0:02
Catherine, thank you so much for joining me.
Catherine Adel West 0:05
Thank you so much for having me, Ashley, I really appreciate it. It's an honor.
Ashley Hasty 0:09
First, would you tell our listeners what the Two Lives of Sara is about?
Catherine Adel West 0:14
Yeah. So the two lives of Sarah is about a woman who flees from Chicago to Memphis, Tennessee to escape her path. And in doing so, her walls are up. But eventually she finds love and found family. But there are secrets. And those secrets have consequences, too, how she's living her life, and we will, we will see what happens to Sarah. It could be good, it could be bad. You know, you're you're in for a great ride and bring a lot of tissues.
Ashley Hasty 0:50
If I'm not mistaken, your first book sieving Ruby King was a contemporary novel. And the two legs of Sarah is set in the 1960s. So I'm curious how your process differed between writing the contemporary and historical did you prefer one over the other? Or did one come more naturally to you?
Catherine Adel West 1:11
I just prefer to write. So I don't like to pigeonhole myself with one particular genre. So yes, saving became was contemporary, a contemporary fiction novel and the two lives of Sarah is story based in 1960s, Memphis, Tennessee, right? So, with seven freaking pants with Sarah, I had to outline it, you know, just a requirement of my publisher, and if they wanted to acquire the book, so like, I had no choice but to outline. It's the first time ever, I have to outline the book. But I think for me, both genres have their ups and their downs with contemporary fiction with any fiction, you have to do research, right? Like, you're not just going to, you know, write a book and whatever happens happens, you're going to do your research, right? So contemporary fiction. Yeah, like did some research, like a little bit of research about, you know, Chicago, things I didn't know about Chicago? All right, cool. The two lines of Sarah. That was crazy. Like I had, I was reading books, newspaper articles. academic paper, this is what I did. in person interview. Well, I wrote during 2020. So it wasn't in person interviews. So I didn't like zoom interviews with people who lived during that time to kind of get a sense for what Memphis was like, during the 1960s. Because I'm an 80s. Baby. This was like 20 years before my time had no clue. So I think both contemporary and historical fiction have the things about them that I love and thinks about them that I don't, as I said, my whole thing is just not to be pigeonholed because like my third, the third book that I'm working on, it's not really contemporary, it's not really historical, I'm just doing something completely different. You know, like I said, I just want to challenge myself, and challenge my craft and see how much I can do and how many different genres and, and not just the duel, but to do it successfully.
Ashley Hasty 3:19
And then love that. Well, I was a historian before I got into writing. So I love to hear how different writers approach the reset research process. When, especially when writing historical fiction, you already touched on it a little bit, but I want you to elaborate a bit more about what your reach research process was, like. You mentioned that you were researching during 2020. So I'm guessing travel didn't play into that too much. But were there certain sources you were fond of?
Catherine Adel West 3:48
Well, I was planning on traveling, you know, do some historical tours, eat a lot of food, like if I had it all planned out in my head and 2020 happens. So what I wound up doing is I read a few books, one of the books called Beale Street dynasty is phenomenal. It takes place before my book, but it helped inform a lot of the different neighborhoods and how I crafted the book. And it also informed it. It also informed me of different political things that were going on during the time that I could allude to. I really had a great time researching, like, music. That was one of the best parts of the research process. Because I could think about like, Hmm, what will be a good song that would play at this particular time, right? So like I Google r&b Songs of the 1960s soul songs 1960s You know, like also 1960s Blah, blah, blah. And I found so many great songs. The issue is when you're only dealing with a finite amount of time. So for instance, like my book kind of takes place during like the early 60s, right up until the mid 60s. So there was some songs, that the great it was written in 1967. You know what I mean. But it also helped me discover a lot of different well, people that I was familiar with, right, but now like, I've just fallen in love with their music, like Decart, and Bobby blue, bland, and I'm like, now now I can't get enough of them. And then I also love incorporating HBCUs, Historically Black Colleges and Universities into the background of a lot of my characters, because HBCUs apart from the African American community aren't really well known. And that's something that I want to say. So I didn't go to an HBCU. But I have friends and family who did and they speak so highly of it. And it's just such a part of African American culture that I felt like it'd be or I'd be remiss if I didn't include it at all. So that was another thing that I really, really like to do.
Ashley Hasty 6:07
I love that. Was there a piece of research? Like some factors story that you wanted to include in the novel, but it didn't fit the story? Or had to be cut for one reason or another? That's a good question.
Catherine Adel West 6:19
Um, I think for me, like I said, I include a lot about African American leaders, civil rights leaders. And as we know, quite a few of them met a tragic end. So there were times where I wanted to explore like the assassination of Malcolm X and what that meant, or the assassination of Martin Luther King and what that meant, but like I couldn't, because it didn't really adhere to the timeframe. So you know, those are some things. You know, what, what that means, like, socially, politically, like emotionally for a whole race of people like those are some things I really wanted to deep dive in. But unfortunately, because of the timeframe that I stuck to, I wasn't able to do that.
Ashley Hasty 7:09
Sure. There are a billion stories out there probably countless stories that could be told out there. So what inspired you to write this one was there in an initial spark that led you down this path?
Catherine Adel West 7:23
Well, yeah, I painted myself into a corner. When saving were became the two largest, there's a companion novel. Now what that means is you don't need to read saving became to understand what's going on with this novel. You don't need to read the two lines of Sarah to understand what's going on. So if you're looking for please, please get both but like, get both. And you can read them in any order. Right? So it's a companion novel. So my silly behind decided near to the end of the book. I'm just like, I'm writing pretty words. And I'm just writing this scene. And secondly, King, where Sarah sitting on the bench at the main church, where she came from Calgary Hope Christian Church, and it's like the 1960s. And she has her young son Lebanon, with her. And she just said here, you know, she just reminisces about all the things that went on in Memphis, Tennessee, and how she, you know, found this family and met this wonderful man and, and how things don't always, you know, sometimes go the way you want them to. And it sounds so pretty when I was writing and I'm like, Ooh, Oh, yeah, I did a good job. Okay. But then when my publisher was like, Oh, so you know, what, you know, books. You know, what do you what do you think he for the second book? And my editor, I believe Laura Brown kind of mentioned, I really liked that scene with Sarah. And near the end, I think it was I think it was my indoor Brown, or I think it was my at best machine I can't remember. And they're just like, that would tell pika to explore? And I'm like, oh, yeah, great. Except that I don't know anything about Memphis. I don't know, I pick myth. It's like other than it being like a fantastic town and really heavy and civil rights, history and really good food. I just picked me up because it just sounded nice. I didn't know anything about Memphis. And then they're like, oh, you should write the book about this. And I'm like, yeah, actually write the book about. So I guess I'm gonna write a book about this. So I mean, I'm really happy though, that I was able to outline the book because I had a guidepost as to how to go and where to go. And you know, with saying we can't it took me five years to write it with the two lads of Sarah, it was five months. So there is something to be said for Atlanta. Do I still love to pants I'm not even an alias to love. I still want to pants novels. It's just that when you're aware Working towards deadlines. I'm one of those people who who does, apparently, because this isn't the only this is the second book I've ever written period. So apparently I think I need like an outline in order to get through the book. You know, like within a year or less.
Ashley Hasty 10:16
Oh, that's so interesting. So was your first book that was published the first book you ever wrote? Yes. It
Catherine Adel West 10:23
became the first book I ever wrote. And that was the book that got me my agent and gotten published. Yes, I understand how crazy that sounds.
Ashley Hasty 10:30
Yeah, that's, I mean, a little crazy, but very cool. Yeah.
Catherine Adel West 10:34
I mean, I tell people they suddenly became was literally 20 books. within, like, the first version, the first iteration of this book was true rash. I'm like, I can talk about my book. Like, this isn't my book. Like it was true rash. The first iteration is a BB King was so bad. And then even when I started query, it was it was good, but it was super rough. Like I made a you know, Nate was like, a lot of, you know, first time writers making your book is ready to be queried in it and mines wasn't like I thought it was, but it wasn't. And I had to completely rehash cut out half of the book and rewrite it again. And, and even then, after that, I had to do developmental edits, Florida. So like, if you ever saw the first draft, a saving became that was finished in 2017. To what came out in 2020. You'd be like, yeah. mean, it looks like the only common things they have are the words and V and A. So
Ashley Hasty 11:42
besides being an author, you're also an editor. Is that correct?
Catherine Adel West 11:46
Yes, I am in editor for a for newswire service. So a lot of times I do kind of like edit as I go, which sometimes I shouldn't do it, but like, I can't help but like, right, and then like, go back over what I wrote, and then like, do it again. I really shoot myself in the foot. And I have nobody to blame but myself.
Ashley Hasty 12:11
Well, I'm curious what advice you would have for either aspiring authors or authors who don't yet have an agent or a publishing contract?
Catherine Adel West 12:19
Yeah, I just want to say you're a writer, period. It doesn't matter if you have a contract doesn't matter. If you have an agent, you wrote a book. Do you know how difficult it is? You know what I mean? Like I think people will get caught up on because I'm the same way on what they haven't achieved yet. And I think it's just human nature for us to constantly strive on want, you know, more. But I just would like to say to those people, you're, and you need to be so proud of yourself, for doing something like that. I also will say you need to persevere. You know what I mean? And I know you've heard that before. And I know it sounds cliche, but you really do. rejection, unfortunately, is the name of the game, and it doesn't get easier. But the thing is to also have a community around you a set of friends, a set of family found, or blood or whomever around you to cheer you on, but not cheer you want to the fact that they just wear rose colored glasses to kick you in the butt when you need to be kicked in the butt. Because I needed to be kicked in the butt quite a few times. Like, I'm never gonna get an agent. I don't know why I'm doing this women doing this finish. So, you know, having like all types of like, existential crisis, having a midlife crisis, like 1520 years too early, like I was going through it all. But because of you know, the community that I've built around me, I was able to get my head out of my behind and, and persevere and move forward. So I mean, it's just a lot of writing the books you want to write not writing to the market, because I didn't write to the market. I just wrote this, you know, I just my first book, I just decided to just write it. And like I said, making sure you have good people around you.
Ashley Hasty 14:04
I like that. And I found that really the writing community is such a supportive community very much. So if you can find a group that can support you and pressure you to keep going. Yeah,
Catherine Adel West 14:16
yeah, sometimes you Yeah, sometimes you need to be pressured to keep going. Like I there were a couple of times I almost gave up with saving Ruby King and if I did, like literally, and I'll tell you this one quick anecdote. Yeah. Remember when I said I had to cut half of saving became an acrobat. Okay, so I had this awesome agent. I was still working with her she's on point. She gave me a revise and resubmit. And she basically told me all of the things that she wanted me to adjust and do. And I was told this I want to say in like, January of 2018, it was January 2018. And I thought I wasn't gonna get like an offer of representation and I didn't so I was devastated. I was, you know, set in this particular this chair that I'm sitting in right now cried for like five minutes and my mom was like, okay, sweetie, I understand you're disappointed, but what are you gonna do though? Like, are you gonna take her advice and rewrite the book? Or are you gonna move on? And I was like, Oh, okay. So, you know, it took me five months and I rewrote the book. I sent it to her. And then I also engaged in DV pit, which is a pitch contest for marginalized writers on Twitter. And I remember it was a Thursday, I got an email from the agent, and she's like, This is so great, but I'm gonna have to say no. And I was I was done. I was like, publishing the whole community. Like, I'm done. I'm just not supposed to be a writer. This isn't just this isn't supposed to happen for me. I guess. Like I try. I did when I literally read literally rewrote the whole book. That was on Thursday. And I moved around for the whole weekend. I'm not even going to tell you I put on a brave face. Nope. Sitting up there eating Haagen DAAS feeling sorry for myself. Monday, literally that Monday, I go into work, do feeling crappy. And about like 11 or 12 My time I get an email. And at this point, I'm so used to dealing with rejection. I'm thinking it's an email. From who? You know, I'm thinking it's an email just saying like, yeah, thanks. But no, thanks. It is an email from my now agent saying, I just finished reading this. I'd be crazy not to throw my hat into the ring. Please give me a call so I can show you what our literary agency can offer you. Literally, Thursday, I'm quitting Monday. You know, it's just rainbows, sunshine, unicorns and ice cream. Right. So like, don't give up that next email that next book. That next story like that can be your Yes.
Ashley Hasty 17:11
I like that. I love that story. And I love your mom saying I know you're disappointed. But what are you going to do about it?
Catherine Adel West 17:17
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. My mom was like, so she's like, oh, yeah, analysis, but like, what are you gonna do? You know what I mean? And that's kind of like, you know, that the I'm sorry, I still have a eyebrow eyelash in my eye. But, you know, it's, it's, it's pretty much her hallmark of how she raised my brother and is like, yeah, this sucks. But how are you gonna fix it? What is your solution? Yeah, you know, so if your solution is to, you know, just take a break and not writing more or, you know, take a break and maybe write a different book then fine, but if your solution is just a mold, like I can't cosign I'm not gonna cosign on you just moping around the house. Like that's not Oh moping around your house. Like that's not going to get it.
Ashley Hasty 18:01
Like want you to tell us a bit about your reading world and my experience authors always have the best book recommendation. So what would you recommend right now?
Catherine Adel West 18:10
Oh, my goodness. Okay, so I'm a bad bad bad author, because I'm gonna tell you when I'm writing my books, I don't really read very much. I know I'm bad. But when I am kind of freed from that, and I'm able to get back into my writing world, I read like some so one of my books that I really really enjoyed reading as a white contemporary novel called Love times affinity by Elaine Clark. I'm also really getting into rom coms. So savvy Sheldon feels good as hell by Taj McCoy. And when I need my my books that are literary and sad and make you feel like you're in a deep dark hole that you're not gonna get out of Hanya Yanagihara A Little Life I reread that book like once a year like I reread that book once a year. Also, I haven't read cast yet but Isabel Wilkerson The Warmth of Other Suns, I really don't mess with nonfiction. This is one of the few nonfiction books that I really really like I really mess with. I recommend highly like I cannot get enough of it. I also have read haflong rose by Lisa cross Smith that was a fantastic also takes place in Paris. It's like one of my favorite cities I've visited there a couple times um Goodness What else Oh, when I mean like light rains I read a lot of being coats like oh hey, like I really like you know when I just need like a really good like fast thriller type read. I read a lot of Dean combs. So yeah, so those are some of the things like it's, it's it's, it's kind of like all over the place. But sometimes focus my writing. And then also, I will give you this tip that a lot of people will just read my books and be like, your dialogues, great. I love your dialogue, and myself on the back. That's great. It's not because I read a lot of books when it comes to my dialogue, it's actually because I look at a lot of television and movies, television and movies have a certain natural cadence with how people speak to each other. Like we're talking, there's not a you know, there's, like I said, like, I stutter, or, you know, I touch them, I do this. So it's, it's one of those things where I pay attention to that, because it helps me in terms of dialogue and how my characters interact with one another. Yeah, read, absolutely read during my free time, but I watch a lot of TV and movies. And that really, really also helps me in my dialogue.
Ashley Hasty 20:54
I kind of understand not reading while you're writing, I imagine those authors voices would then be in my head as I write you.
Catherine Adel West 21:01
Exactly. You know what I mean? Because I found myself at one point when I was doing developmental edits for saving Ruby King and the two lives of Sarah, and it, you know, I felt I was like reading him remember, I can't remember Hanya Yanagihara, his latest book, but I was reading it. And I started almost kind of like, like, you know, kind of my voice kind of had the same cadence. And all that was like, I needed to put the book down, I finished it, it was awesome. But like, I needed to, like, not read during that time. Because yes, sometimes you might kind of unintentionally, like take on the same timbre or the same type of voice or the same kind of cadence in your writing. And it's already hard to find your voice as an author. So sometimes that can, you know, mess with a little bit so that's like another reason I absolutely, like I'm not really reading as much. Really at all when I'm writing center the Bible. I gotta go to church on Sundays. That's not that is what that is. But, um, but yeah, I don't once again when I'm done, I read but you know, during the creative process, MASSIMO
Ashley Hasty 22:10
Yeah. Before we wrap up, is there anything else you wanted to talk about that we haven't yet covered?
Catherine Adel West 22:17
covered a lot. You're awesome. Ashley. Um, I just want to say that I'm super into talking to my readers, you can find me on Instagram on Twitter at ca West 329 also Catherine Adele that Catherine Adele west.com On my website so you know I definitely like to engage with my readers and I really really hope you will love the Two Lives of Sarah I put blood sweat and tears into this literally blood because I thought about something I was thinking about something in my ran up the stairs to figure it out. And
almost it was it was a bad bruises for weeks. It was a not a good luck.
Ashley Hasty 23:08
Too much fun.
Catherine Adel West 23:10
Not just it was just it was a little bit it was a little bit I didn't need a transfusion. I needed a couple bad days and no stitches. It was okay. Everything was all right.
Ashley Hasty 23:19
Oh my gosh. Well, it was such a pleasure chatting with you today. I hope we get the opportunity to meet in person. I think we're both in Chicago, right? Oh, yeah. But in the meantime, I wish you the best of luck with the publication of the two lines at Sarah and can't thank you enough for joining me to chat about it today.
Catherine Adel West 23:38
Once again. Thank you so much for having me, Ashley. And yeah, you know what I mean? A couple places a couple of restaurants I want to try out anyway downtown so we should get together. Let's do it.