Episode 121: Brenda Janowitz, author of The Audrey Hepburn Estate
Brenda Janowitz talks about her latest historical novel, The Audrey Hepburn Estate, about a love triangle and the estate where it took place, inspired by Audrey Hepburn’s tendency to be a homebody.
This is the third novel in what Ashley lovingly refers to as Brenda’s novels about starlets and the things they own.
In addition, Brenda shares great advice for writers, the best books she’s read lately, and what inspired this particular story.
Check out the book club questions and Brenda’s recipe for Old Fashioned Prune Cake (German Brown Cake) on Book Club Bites.
Books Mentioned:
The Audrey Hepburn Estate by Brenda Janowitz (Bookshop.org / Amazon.com )
The Liz Taylor Ring by Brenda Janowitz (Bookshop.org / Amazon.com )
The Grace Kelly Dress by Brenda Janowitz (Bookshop.org / Amazon.com )
Hell of a Book by Jason Mott (Bookshop.org / Amazon.com )
Pineapple Street by Jenny Jackson (Bookshop.org / Amazon.com )
The Vacationers by Emma Straub (Bookshop.org / Amazon.com )
Full Disclosure: We are part of the Amazon and bookshop.org affiliate programs, which means Lainey or Ashley get a tiny commission if you buy something after clicking through from link on this website.
Connect with the author:
Transcript:
** Transcript created using AI (so please forgive the typos!) **
TRANSCRIPT GOES HERE
Ashley Hasty
Brenda, welcome to the best of women's fiction podcast. I did some internet sleuthing, and we've been Instagram friends since 2020 with the release of The Grace Kelly Dress and I've been such a fan ever since. I'm very excited to have you on the podcast.
Ashley Hasty
Thank you so much. I'm so thrilled to be here and I love that you look that up. That's something I would have done.
Brenda Janowitz
I am excited to chat with you about your latest novel The Audrey Hepburn Estate. So let's start off if you'll tell our listeners what the book is about.
Brenda Janowitz
Absolutely inspired by the Audrey Hepburn film, Sabrina. The Audrey Hepburn Estate is a story of a woman who returns to Long Island home where she grew up once she learns that it's set to be demolished. Going home again brings two men from her past back into her life forcing her to reconsider everything she thinks she knows about her past a little romantic, a little mysterious. It's ultimately a story about the true meaning of home.
Ashley Hasty
Well, as I mentioned, the first book that got me hooked on you as a writer is The Grace Kelly Dress. I'm going to call that the beginning of a trend. Classic celebrities and the things they own falling. There was The Liz Taylor Ring and now The Audrey Hepburn Estate. So, tell me a bit about how this trend got started.
Brenda Janowitz
First of all, I love everything about what you just said. Yeah, it is sort of the beginning of a trend for me. And the other day I called it a trilogy. But it's not because all of these characters are completely separate. So the thread running between these three books is The Hollywood starlet. And as you said something they own the heirloom item. And it's funny when you say like the dress than the dime and then the house I had to just like keep getting bigger.
Brenda Janowitz
So now the heirloom item is enormous. It's like an entire state. As for how I got started, you know, they always say you should write about the things that you're obsessed with. And since I was a little girl, I was always obsessed with these old Hollywood stars. On Sundays, I would watch old black and white movies with my mom. They used to always have them on repeat. And these were the starlets that I was sort of obsessed with. So for the Grace Kelly dress, I knew I wanted to write a book about a wedding dress. Actually, the connection to Grace Kelly came a little after I started writing the proposal. And as I was describing the wedding dress, I of course took inspiration from the most iconic wedding dress of all time, my most favorite thing, the thing that actually inspired my own wedding dress, which is Grace Kelly's gown. And so the original title of that was rose Pointe lace, because that was one of the types of lace that was used on the gown and my age. And I remember she said, You know, it's it's fine. The title is just not that great. We need a better title. And so I was like, Well, why not call it The Grace Kelly Dress. And so she said, Oh, I love the title. But why? Why is it called that? And I was like, well, because the dress I'm describing, and she had no idea what Grace Kelly's wedding dress looked like. And to me I was like, doesn't everyone know that looks good. So I sort of went from there. And then I just sort of layered more and more in and I made it more intentional that it was a copy of Grace's dress and that that way I was able to sort of like infuse it with more of Grace Kelly and Princess stuff and sort of things about her movies and her life. And that's when the trend just sort of started. So I did Liz Taylor next because I knew I wanted to write about an heirloom piece of jewelry, because I'm obsessed with jewelry because again, you you stay with these books for so long, you do have to be obsessed with your topic. I love jewelry that's been handed down. And I felt like that was like a natural next step from a wedding dress.
Brenda Janowitz
As for Audrey, you know by then I was sort of like a well oiled machine with all of my research. So as I was writing, I was buying all of my research books and starting to look into her life. And as is the case with Grace Kelly and Elizabeth Taylor. I thought I knew everything there was to know and it turned out I knew barely barely a thing. There were so many things that I learned about Audrey Hepburn's life even you know, rewatching her films as an adult, I find like as you rewatch these films at different stages of your life, you sort of take them in differently. So I had so much to learn about. Like, for example, I did not know she was a homebody and loved home and how important that was to her. Once those details sort of coming into focus, that's when I realized what the book should be.
Ashley Hasty
For the Grace Kelly dress, you said the dress sort of came first and then Grace Kelly came later for the Liz Taylor ring in the Audrey Hepburn estate. Did the celebrities come first or did the story start from person you fit a celebrity that the story you wanted to tell?
Brenda Janowitz
Well, a little bit of both, actually, because in terms of the starlets that I'm obsessed with, it's definitely Grace Kelly, Elizabeth Taylor and Audrey Hepburn. The item definitely came first for Liz Taylor because I knew I wanted to do jewelry and then once I started thinking about jewelry, there's no other Hollywood star let you think of an Elizabeth Taylor so they sort of like were together from the start and that one was easy. Audrey was a little different. I knew the movie I wanted to focus on with Sabrina and the more Were I thought about it. And when I rewatched it, I was sort of like, I think I need a love triangle. Also, I just sort of like kept getting deeper and deeper into Sabrina. When I learned that Audrey Hepburn was a homebody and loved home. I was like, Oh, this is perfect. You know, everything, all of the research, everything I learned about her and all sort of like fell into place. So Audrey also, it sort of like happened at the same time. But just very luckily, because I'm obsessed with Audrey. I'm obsessed with the concept of home. I'm a homebody as well. So I had a lot to say about that. They sort of all fall together.
Ashley Hasty
Taking a step back for a minute. I love asking authors, how they became authors, their journeys to publication are often varied. You started as a lawyer. So tell me a bit about your journey from lawyer to novelist.
Brenda Janowitz
It's so funny, because sometimes people are so surprised that I was a lawyer first. I mean, I'll take it back to my childhood, actually, because I was always one of those kids who love to read and love to write, I can remember just being like a little girl, always being obsessed with reading. When I was younger, my parents would take me to bookstores, and I could just sort of like, run around and buy whatever I wanted. And books were always a very, very big part of my life. But I think when I was younger, I didn't know that you could just be an author. And think that was a thing that was possible. It felt like this dream. So I love to read, I love to write, I became a lawyer. But I was one of those lawyers who hated being a lawyer, and I hated. I shouldn't say that, you know, I loved law school. And I loved being at my firm, I loved working with a lot of really intelligent people who sort of knew what was going on in the world. I'd love that part. I didn't love working till like nine and 10 every night. That part I definitely did not love. And then it worked for a judge. But I was still in New York. So the hours were still kind of crazy. And I just couldn't like find my place. So I always say I was one of those lawyers who was walking the halls thinking of the story she wanted to write when I was turning 30, my best friend got together with a bunch of my friends. And they did a group gift for me. And that was to send me to a writing class because one of my excuses, of course, was that's sort of when things really took off for me. Tuesday nights were dedicated to the art of writing. I took it really seriously while I was in that class, I started writing what would become my first novel. At that point, I think my goal was just okay, I'm turning 30. I want to just write a book. If I just write a book, I'll be satisfied. Like, that's all I want to do. You know, you're a type A lawyer. So you finished the book. And you're like, well, maybe I should just get it published, right. So I did.
Ashley Hasty
I know quite a few writers who started out as lawyers. So I'm wondering, do you think there's something about law or law school that helps you in your writing career?
Brenda Janowitz
I do. Actually, I do. There are so many, I actually did a listicle a few years back about lawyers turned writers. And now the list. I mean, if I tried to name them all, there's just like too many to name. I do think there's something to that. I think a lot of people become lawyers, because they love to read and love to write. But I will also say Law School teaches you to sit for hours on end, reading, writing, researching, so so much of the skills that you sort of become accustomed to as a lawyer transfer. So, you know, they always say with writing, it's like, butt in chair, you have to like really just like sit down and do the work. And that's what it was like being a lawyer. You know, whatever the assignment was, if it was a brief if it was a document production, where you had to read millions of papers, like whatever it is, you had to sit down and do it. That's a lot of writing a book, like there are days where you'll come to the computer and you just feel like you have absolutely nothing to say, but you have to write anyway.
Ashley Hasty
Well, Audrey Hepburn Estate is your eighth novel, many authors, myself included, would dream of a career like yours. Whatone piece of advice would you offer to authors at the beginning of their careers?
Brenda Janowitz
Oh God, I never know what to say. I feel like I used to have really good advice. But it's I feel like the further I get along in my career, the less I know if that's possible. The more you get to like learn how the sausage is made. You're just like, Ah, so much of writing. I feel like writers don't say this enough. So much of writing is luck and being in the right place at the right time. And fairy dust. You know, especially me being a lawyer to become a lawyer. It's like you go to law school, you study for the bar, if you study for the bar, you will pass. But just because you write a book, and just because you read a good book, doesn't mean anyone's going to write it like there's that fairy dust component of it. So I think that's why I always find it so hard to give advice.
Brenda Janowitz
But recently, a college student asked me to make a video with advice. So I'll give you the advice I gave these college students writing is rewriting. So for me eight books and what I'm realizing and this really started with the Grace Kelly dress, actually, the most important part of your writing is the editing. I feel like when you're writing your first book, you feel like it's like this momentous thing, right? You've written a book 300 Pages for me. It took me a full year. It feels like every sentence is perfectly placed and nothing can move. But writing is rewriting and the good stuff comes comes in those edits, when I was doing the edits one time when I completely ripped out and rewrote for the second draft. And at the time, I remember thinking, like, I can't do this, like, there's no way I can rewrite an entire timeline, especially because so much had been like, woven in from the other two. But it wasn't working. And it was one of those things, you know, forgive the pun. But once you pull one thread, sometimes the whole thing falls apart. And that's what had happened with that timeline. My editor made like the tiniest little note, it was that the protagonist wasn't active enough. She wasn't making enough decisions, like her best friend was sort of guiding things. And that's like a cardinal sin. I mean, the book is about your project, that she can't just be sitting around letting life happen. So when she pulled that string, I was like, Oh, God, this whole thing is wrong. So I rewrote the whole thing with her other notes in mind. Ultimately, I think that's what made that a stronger book that I allowed myself to just like, completely tear it apart. It's hard when you're first starting. And I remember with my first novel, like, I didn't want to change a sentence, I was like, no, no, I placed that there on purpose is if my editor didn't know that, like as if she thought I just did, like a mad libs to create this book, but eight books, and that's the biggest thing I've learned. And I think that's the thing that really makes your writing sing. It's on the edits and the digging, that you start to uncover like life truths. And the book really comes together.
Ashley Hasty
I love that you pointed that out that writing is rewriting as an author early on, in my career, unpublished on agent did editing is the hardest part for me, like I can write a million first drafts, and never actually go back and edit any of them, because that's the hard part. But that's also where a good book is made. That's why it's hard.
Brenda Janowitz
Yeah, I couldn't agree more. And I'm very similar to you right now. I'm working on like a first draft of something. And someone was saying, oh, that's the hardest part. I'm like, No, this is the best part. You have so much fun. You could do whatever, you know, if it doesn't work, you'll just get rid of it later. But when you're doing that first run through, you just sort of are going crazy with it. And I remember what the list tailoring I was reading that during COVID, during the very first summer of quarantine, and my brain, I just could not focus. I didn't know what was going on. I was like, well, we all live like we'll be will we be alive when this book gets published? And I remember just going crazy saying to myself just right. If it's bad, you'll get rid of it. And there were so many times like my agent was like, what is happening here? And I'm like, Oh, I don't know. It was COVID. She's like, get rid of. But you know, it's the editing, you're like, I'll edit it later. So to me the like you said, the first draft is the fun stuff.
Ashley Hasty
And I liked your analogy and pulling the thread. I think that's why I don't like editing or that I resist editing isn't I'm afraid if I start pulling a thread, it will just all unravel in front of me. And I'll be like, oh, gosh, now what?
Brenda Janowitz
Yeah, I mean, I've been there so many times. I used to say, like, when friends would say how's the editing, I would say, Oh, I'm at that part where I've torn so much apart. I don't think I could put it back together again. And every writer will be like, oh, yeah, yeah, I know that part. Did you cry? Okay. Once you've cried, now you can start to edit. But sometimes it just feels like, Oh, God, I worked so hard on this. And now I've just torn it apart in a way that it can't be sort of redone. Again, and you will. It's just really hard. But you will and it'll be better for it. I feel like the other thing I do when I do massive edit, I now save various versions. So I have like six or seven incarnations of the same book. Because it's like tricking your mind. It's like, oh my god, I'm gonna ruin this thing. And you say, Okay, no problem, then I'll just go back to the original. And almost every time if you go back to the original, you're like, No, the new one stronger. So but like, mentally you have to have it there. So that you can like trick yourself into rewriting. You're like, Okay, if it's worse, I can always fix it. But nine times out of 10 You're gonna love the new stuff you've done. Because also at that point, you know, the characters so much more. And you know, you're just, you have like a deeper relationship with them. And you understand what you're trying to say, I think when you're first starting to write, and for me on a first draft, you're like, What is this book about? And I remember saying this to one of the writers I was helping, I read either her book or something about and I said, Okay, so what's this about? And she was like, What do you mean, I just told you the plot. I'm like, No, not the plot, like, what's the story? What's this about? Like, what's your point? And she was like, Oh, God. And so then after I said that, she's like, Oh, wait, now I'm looking at the book differently. And I think ultimately, you do have to take that step back at a certain point and say, What is this book that's for you? But when you edit it with that in mind, that's when you make it stronger. So like for Audrey, the book is about home the true meaning of home when you edit with that in mind, everything is leading towards that.
Ashley Hasty
As our regular listeners know my favorite part of the writing process is research and I love hearing about how authors go about their own research prior So what is your research process look like for your books?
Brenda Janowitz
First of all, I just have to say I'm fascinated that your favorite part, I feel like it's my least favorite part. I don't know, for me, it's such a way to procrastinate. Like, I can go down a rabbit hole for weeks, just weeks on end. And it's like, well, I can't finish the book because I have these 10 phone calls out to these 10 different museums. So for me for these three books, in particular, I was writing as I researched. I know a lot of writers do like a year of research, then they jump into writing, but I'm just not one of those writers. I like to do a lot of free writing. I think that's why I have to edit really heavily. Because sometimes I'm just sort of like seeing what will happen for this book. I started writing. I mean, originally, she had a different profession, it took place somewhere different, like she had a different name, like everything about my protagonist changed once I learned more about Audrey Hepburn and I wanted to infuse more of her life in her films into my protagonist. But I just said to myself, just keep writing and you can always go back and change. And that's what I did. So for a long time, like the first chapter didn't match, like the second half of the book. Because I didn't go back and change her. I was like, Oh, I'll do that later. I'll do that later. So I was sort of researching as I went. And that just works for me. The thing that you should always do is do whatever works for you. So for me, every book is different. Every experience is different, and I just do whatever works like whatever we'll get the words down on the page, I think is a good thing.
Ashley Hasty
Although your books aren't titled after starlets, the starlets are never your protagonist. The stories themselves focus on other characters. Do you do much research on the starlets themselves for which the books are named? Or is your research more about the time period?
Brenda Janowitz
I do a ton of research on my starlets. I love that because sometimes people pick up the book and they don't read the back. And so they assume it's biographical fiction, and it's not the starlets are referenced and you will definitely get a lot of like Audrey Hepburn reading the book. So if you're a Sabrina fan, you will notice the black dress and the white and black. From the film Yeah, I do a ton of research on the starlets themselves. I feel like I want the book infused with their essence for the Grace Kelly dress. I was trying to get the Regal the sort of like, well, for lack of a better word, the grace and the elegance for the list tailoring. Elizabeth Taylor's life was incredibly scandalous. And I wanted the reader to almost feel like a little scandalous, like anything could happen at any moment for Audrey Hepburn. I don't know if you saw the documentary on Netflix. But one of the things her granddaughter said was the secret about Audrey Hepburn that no one knew was that she was sad. Yeah, yeah, that like broke my heart a little because I think a lot of us and this is what the research taught me like a lot of us think of her as a certain way. And it's like her image from these films, you know, from the Oscars and stuff like the elegant chic woman and the beautiful black dress. But she was sort of like so much more than that. And her life was so much more than that. I wouldn't call her life sad, though. I mean, she had a lot of moments of joy. She was an independent, smart woman who really went for what she wanted and really knew what she believed in. She had also faced so much adversity in her life, which I did not know about, I had no idea that she survived five years of Northwest occupation in Holland as a child. From there, she suffered severe malnutrition. And it didn't know that either. And I think a lot of people don't know that because someone came up to me and said, So Audrey Hepburn did she have an eating disorder? And I was like, that's what you take from her little like life figure that she had an eating disorder. I said, No, she didn't have an eating disorder. As a matter of fact, she loved eating, but she suffered severe malnutrition during the war. And it followed her through her whole life, those health problems, unfortunately, followed her through her entire life till the end of it. So researching her learning more about her that helped me infuse the book with like the spirit of Audrey COVID Say it's sad, but there is like a thoughtfulness to it. So it's not as just it's not just like a little black dresses, although there are little black dresses. But it's not all that.
Ashley Hasty
I did not know there was a documentary about her on Netflix that I will definitely be going to look that up.
Brenda Janowitz
Yeah, it's fascinating. It has family members. It's just as fascinating for the family members it includes and the family members it doesn't include the whole thing is is really well done and interesting. It gives you a really good sense of her life, a little of everything.
Ashley Hasty
I'd love to hear books you're reading and loving right now. Can you tell us a bit about your reading world? What books should we not miss?
Brenda Janowitz
Ooh, well, obviously I love reading. I was the Pop Sugar books correspondent for five years. And even though I no longer report on my books, I do love talking about books. But the funny thing is, when people would say What are you reading? I used to say, Oh, just go to have all my books. I no longer have that list, but I actually do keep this notebook with what I'm reading, of course completely forgotten. So I will tell you that Things I've read recently, I just picked up Hell of a Book, which was a very big deal like a year or two ago. And I just started it and I'm loving it. It's about this black author and he's going on book tour and looking up the author but it is Jason Mott. I can tell it's like really entertaining and clever, but I could tell it's like deeper. And I love books that you could read on like two different levels like that. I just finished Pineapple Street by Jenny Jackson. Everyone's talking about that one. So of course, I had to read it. And that was like really fun. Actually, when I clerked for my judge, I worked in Brooklyn Heights. So I'm really familiar with the neighborhood she's talking about. Unfortunately, I'm not familiar with that level of wealth that she's talking about, but I do Aspire. And then before that, I read The Vacationers by Emma Straub, and I loved it. I love her writing. There's something so delicious about her writing and her characters. I'm really sort of like all over the place with my reading, I feel what are you reading?
Brenda Janowitz
Oh, gosh, that'sa good question. Nothing right now because I'm on maternity leave. That's not true. I'm reading kids books. A lot of kids books.
Brenda Janowitz
They're fun and it's hard to find like the right ones. Are you into the Sandra Boynton ones have you picked those up yet?
Ashley Hasty
I haven't.
Brenda Janowitz
No like Moo Moo Bala LA. I'm probably butchering it but you have to there Cubieboard books. Your son will equally enjoy you reading it and him eating it. Because it's a cardboard board book my kids. Forgive the fun devoured all of her books. There's so much fun and they're like fun to read. They like have these funny rhymes really recommend.
Ashley Hasty
I will definitely have to look those up. I think our favorite right now is like my little bookworm. Cute. I love the little bookworm or something like that. We like to read that one, mostly me. And he just like looks at the pictures.
Brenda Janowitz
I remember I used to always try to get reading done on late night feedings because I had friends. They were like, that's when I get all my reading done. But I was just like, so exhausted, like, half asleep half awake. I never got reading done at that time.
Ashley Hasty
Yes, I downloaded audiobooks because I heard that to get through books, during late night feedings if they were on audio, and it just never worked. I don't know. Like, holding him feeding him and juggling my phone and getting into play and then stopping when he was here. It was just a mess.
Brenda Janowitz
I know. It's like getting in the right position. You're comfortable. He's comfortable. But then you have to burp it. It's like it never ends.
Ashley Hasty
I'm going to focus on what I was doing an awesome a book that was playing so that did not work.
Brenda Janowitz
I know it's tough. Soon, you'll be at the stage where your baby will take longer naps, of course, then you have to do laundry and the bottle. But if you have five minutes at the end of the 700 chores you have to do that's a good time.
Ashley Hasty
Of course, I want to share how people can find you. So will you give us your website and where you like to hang out on social media.
Brenda Janowitz
Of course, my websites pretty easy. It's just Brendajanowitz.com. On social media, I'm on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram. But I spend most of my time on Instagram.
Ashley Hasty
And before we wrap up, is there anything else you wanted to talk about that we haven't covered yet?
Brenda Janowitz
Oh, I mean, I'm sure a million talking about baby stuff. Now the moment you but I don't know if the listeners want to hear. I'm like, should I give you more baby book recommends?
Ashley Hasty
Yes, absolutely. When we end this recording, we'll make a list.
Brenda Janowitz
You're at like such an interesting time. Because I feel like when I had my first son, it was like, oh, and and now you could do this, you could do that you could do the other thing. But your days are so filled. By the time it's time to go to sleep, you're so exhausted, you're just like boned. You know, the days are long, but the years are short. And it you're definitely like in a rough spot in terms of having your job and trying to write but you find the time, somehow, miraculously, you'll find it. And the other thing I want to say when you have a baby, it's really easy to get consumed and just baby world, like baby land, because you know, you are going to be exhausted and there is so much to do, and you get it. But it's so important to have something for yourself. I remember at one point when I was pregnant with my second, I was really struggling to find the time to find the energy and even to find selling like I wanted to say because my life was sort of so consumed with having this two year old and being pregnant. And I remember I said to my husband, okay, um, I think I'm done with writing. Like, I'm just going to stop. I had a few books. That was good. Ron did great. And now I'm just going to be a mom and focus on that and just be like, totally retired. And I remember he was like, that sounds like a terrible idea. We are going to get a babysitter a few times a week and you are going to write I remember when I first started it felt like so much pressure to get my writing done at that time. It was like an hour here two hours here. Even if I had like a three hour block. It was like Go, go go. The writing isn't always like that. In hindsight, I realized that that time was so incredibly important because you need something for yourself. Yeah, it's very easy to get wrapped up in things. But you need to have something for yourself know who you are have this way to express yourself. So I think it's great even with baby in the background somewhere. You're continuing to do your work and do your writing. I think it's
Ashley Hasty
Oh, that's so interesting that your husband said that to my husband said something similar to me recently, when I was like, I don't know if I can do this. If I can be a mom and do the blog and the podcast and write and keep reading for fun. He's like, we will find the time we'll figure it out.
Brenda Janowitz
Oh, that's so amazing. Oh, that makes me feel so good to hear that. He said that, you know, not everyone is lucky enough to have that. So
Ashley Hasty
I know now and helping me to keep a bit of who I was pre baby, as well. Have something like you said has something for yourself? Yeah.
Brenda Janowitz
Yeah, yeah, it's very easy to forget all of that. I mean, it's only been a few weeks for you. But still, you can see how dramatically your life has changed. And it just keeps going. And you don't want to wake up one day and sort of be like, who am I? Where did I go right?
Ashley Hasty
For me, it happened so fast. I had these grand plans, like easing out of the blog into maternity leave giving myself a few weeks before he was due. And then he was six weeks early. And so it was just I was in the middle of like planning for maternity leave. And then he was here and everything stopped except for baby stuff. And now I'm starting to get back in to blog stuff. And I'm like, do I remember how to do?
Brenda Janowitz
I feel like you were so organized. So that's fascinating to hear that he like caught you unawares? That's like a good metaphor for mom life, though, right? Because like as much as you plan, it's just life is what it is. Yeah. I feel like that's one of the lessons I learned as a mom, just when you think you have everything under control. I remember like, at one point I was complaining about selling one of my kids was doing and my mom said, Oh, don't worry, every stage ends. So like, even if it's a good stage, like whatever your kids doing, they're gonna change sooner soon enough, so don't worry. So life is constantly sort of changing. And you're always readjusting. I guess that's good. Right. It teaches us sort of like move and edit more. Right?
Ashley Hasty
Exactly. And we brought it full circle. I love it. Oh, Brenda, this was so fun. I cannot thank you enough for joining us on the podcast. You've been a wonderful supporter of my blog, and now this podcast and I'm so grateful
Brenda Janowitz
Yeah, thank you very much for having me.