Episode 130: Ann Marie Jackson, author of The Broken Hummingbird
Our choice for the first episode of the new season, Ann Marie Jackson's debut novel, The Broken Hummingbird, was announced as a finalist in the 2023 American Fiction and International Book Awards.
Set in the Mexican town of San Miguel de Allende, where Lainey Cameron also resides, this novel wrestles with marital dissolution and cultural dissonance, following a woman’s struggle to truly know her new country and her own heart.
One of Ann Marie’s pieces of advice for aspiring writers is to emphasize the importance of prioritizing writing in one's life, encouraging fellow authors to schedule dedicated time for their craft.
Books & Links Mentioned:
The Broken Hummingbird by Ann Marie Jackson (Bookshop.org / Amazon.com )
Luz and Josie and Vic by Debra Thomas (Bookshop.org / Amazon.com )
Pedro Páramo by Juan Rulfo (Bookshop.org / Amazon.com )
American Dirt by Jeanine Cummings (in context of conversation over who gets to write which story and cultural appropriation) (Bookshop.org / Amazon.com )
Ann Marie’s recent articles on Mexico News Daily
Women’s Fiction Writers Association
Full Disclosure: We are part of the Amazon and bookshop.org affiliate programs, which means Lainey or Ashley get a tiny commission if you buy something after clicking through from a link on this website.
Connect with the author:
Transcript:
** Transcript created using AI (so please forgive the typos!) **
Lainey Cameron 0:00
This is Lainey Cameron and you're listening to the Best of Women's Fiction Podcast, which I co host with book blogger extraordinaire and fellow writer Ashley Hasty, founder of the Hasty Book List.
I'm an author of women's fiction, a digital nomad and a marketing expert. This year, I launched a program where I help authors develop a successful launch plan for their books. It's called 12 Weeks to Book Launch Success, and you can learn more or join the waitlist at Lanie cameron.com. I created this podcast to showcase authors and books I admire in the women's fiction genre. If you enjoy it, I'd love it if you subscribed, and even better, give it some stars or a quick review.
And welcome back to our new season. During the break, I traveled to Asia. Ashley was thrilled to spend time at home with her baby boy. And I actually finished the latest draft of my second novel. So I think we're both having a lot of fun and being productive. But we are so excited to be back for the fall season, which features eight of the best women's fiction authors, as well as two special episodes, one with six fantastic debut authors, and a hot new releases episode featuring new books from authors who've previously been interviewed on the podcast. We are so glad you're here and it's going to be a great season.
So let's get going. In this our first episode, I chat with Ann Marie Jackson, her debut novel just released, and it was already chosen as a finalist in the 2023 International Book Awards. Let's hear more about why I was quite so excited to chat with her. Hi, this is Lindsay Cameron. And I'm so excited because this is our first episode of the fall winter season for 2023. I have a guest that is something very special. I have never had the chance to actually talk to a writer based in San Miguel de Allende like myself before, and even better, Marie Jackson is writing about San Miguel de Allende in Mexico. And I'm sitting here in my office. And if I could turn the camera around, I'm actually looking at the hummingbirds that I consider to be my spirit animal. And this book is called The Broken Hummingbird. Welcome to the podcast. And Marie,
Anne Marie Jackson 2:20
Thank you so much for having me. It is a pleasure to be here.
Lainey Cameron 2:23
You're joining me from San Miguel, I don't need to ask where you are joining me from today. But I can't wait to hear later in the interview. I'm going to ask you about the title because I'm kind of fascinated. The Broken Hummingbird is such a memorable title and the cover is so obvious. It's got that break in it. It's a really beautiful cover. Let's start with the book. Tell us a little bit: people probably haven't heard about this book. It just came out. Tell us a little more about it.
Anne Marie Jackson 2:45
I would be delighted to tell you about the book and my inspiration. The Broken Hummingbird tells the story of an American couple who are in the middle of a marital crisis. And they get the crazy idea that moving to their favorite city abroad, San Miguel de Allende will somehow help them fix their family. The wife Jane is the main character, and she has always been a very successful driven person. But this disintegrating marriage seems to be a problem that she just can't fix. The book really wrestles with both marital dissolution and cultural dissonance as we follow this woman struggle to truly know her new country and her own heart. And there's a very important secondary storyline in San Miguel: out of desire for distraction from her own problems, but also out of a sincere desire to help she gets very involved with a nonprofit organization that helps families living in poverty, she gets a little too wrapped up in one particular family's life. And she assumed comes to suspect that her bumbling efforts to help are actually causing more harm than good. So part of this book is looking with very clear eyes at our efforts to help others and acknowledging that if we're not careful, some of those efforts can backfire. And I absolutely believe that we should be out in the world trying to make a difference trying to help others. But we do have to be careful. We do have to really know what we're doing. And sometimes we need to learn to help better. I had multiple sources of inspiration for this book. I think the first spark was watching my friends and other women who were dealing with all of these issues that the midlife peers seem to throw at us, such as problems with our partners or our children or parents career pressures, financial pressures, the indignities of aging or self doubts or all of the above in so many cases, but some women were really able to deal with these challenges with an extraordinary amount of grace and to come through even the most severe and midlife traumas like divorce. Horse with sort of a transformative energy where they came out stronger at the end. And I wanted to really explore that and honor that. I also wanted to celebrate the power of female friendships. Jane in the book not only builds up her own strength, but she relies on the strength of our friends, as so many of us do. And the sisterhood is very strong in San Miguel de Allende, I also wanted to look at the fact that we're in an era when migration of Mexicans and Central Americans to the United States is constantly in the news and usually portrayed in a very negative light was fascinating for me to look at some of the motivations and the impact of the considerable number of Americans who have chosen to move in the other direction to Mexico. I should also say that despite these sort of heavy and challenging themes, a lot of the book is actually quite joyful. Jane and her children and her new friends have a lot of fun along the way. And part of the enjoyment for me in writing the book was getting the chance to really celebrate the vibrant beauty of San Miguel, the rich cultural heritage here, and just the everyday passion and joy of life in San Miguel.
Lainey Cameron 6:21
I love that and people who are listening who are not familiar with Miguel de Allende, it's a very unique tone in the world. It's got a very multicultural multinational population, depending on the time of year, there may be five to 10,000 foreigners, non Mexicans living in this particular time out of 100 150,000 residents. So it's a very unique time that way, a blend of cultures like you say, I think this is wonderful to have a book that's going to give a little bit of insight into that. I'm going to read a quick review of an early review from Deborah Thomas, who was actually on the podcast herself. She's the author of a loose and beautiful book, and I had her on to talk about her second book after that, and let me just give you a sense of what she says about this book. She says The Broken Hummingbird shimmers with the iridescent beauty of San Miguel de Allende. In this well crafted story, Jackson succeeds in depicting the harsh realities of domestic violence, the complexities of a broken marriage, the significance of community support, and the comfort and strength found in enduring friendships only honest yet tender at the core, a novel with something important to say. And I know that this book has already been announced as a finalist in the International Book Awards, and it's barely out the door. So congratulations, Ann Marie.
Anne Marie Jackson 7:32
Thank you very much. And thank you to Deborah for that lovely quote.
Lainey Cameron 7:36
Tell me a little bit about how this book progressed. And I love asking about whether it changed a lot as you went through the revision and editing process? I think readers sometimes think that we live in a world like Hollywood where you sit down at a computer and you type in manuscripts, and then you hit send, and it goes off into the publisher ether. And we're done. Right? And so I love this question. Because I think for readers, it gives them a little insight into how much work it takes to create a book. And so I would love to get your take on what was the journey of creating this book. It's your debut, and then anything readers might be surprised, perhaps changed as you're editing it.
Anne Marie Jackson 8:08
Okay, well, I wish it were the process you just described, that would be lovely. But that is not how it works. In the real world. This book actually started out as a memoir, but that was very limiting, because I kept censoring myself out of fear of who I might hurt. So a little ways into the process, I made the big decision to turn it into fiction. And that was so liberating, because then anything can happen. And nothing happened. The bits I kept that were from the original memoir, everything has been changed to protect the innocence. There's very little of the original memoir left, it's now pure fiction, I also had to cut along the way, a lot of the extra anecdotes that I kept wanting to add about San Miguel life, because this is such an interesting, exciting place to live. I kept getting excited by something that had happened to me and wanting to write that into the story and then having to say, No, this is not actually moving the plot forward. I had to kill a lot of darlings. That way.
Lainey Cameron 9:11
I can relate to that entirely. I'm entering the revision process for my second book, and I think it was a lot of darlings, I can already see that. I'm like, Oh, they're not going to make the final version. Is there anything specific that you really wanted to squeeze in there, but at the end of the day, you're like, it just doesn't belong.
Anne Marie Jackson 9:26
There was one story about the Alborada, which is the celebration of San Miguel's patron saint when St. Michael triumphs over the devil and this battle between St. Michael and the devil is reenacted at 4am with fireworks fired off the famous pink fairytale church into the crowd. Well, the first time I showed up for this for a party, I didn't understand that and I saw in this huge crowded Plaza, all this space up at the front that seemed to be available. And so I thought why not? Have fun. Yes. And there were some young men who sort of thought that was a great idea. They encouraged me and I got almost all the way to run before this wonderful older woman, bless her heart, sort of grabbed my arm and indicated that would not be a good idea. And once the fireworks started shooting off the church directly into the crowd, I understood why that would not be a good idea only in San Miguel story. So I wanted to include it. But it really didn't have anything to do with the story I was telling. So I had that.
Lainey Cameron 10:29
I'm so glad you told us that one. Because it is such a poignant moment of the year. It happens in September each year. And literally like you say, the fireworks instead of going vertically up into the air go horizontally into the crowd, and people dance in the sparks. And it is a unique life experience. And I would never go anywhere near the front exactly like you. I'm always in the back.
Anne Marie Jackson 10:48
You're a smart woman from making that choice to hang back.
Lainey Cameron 10:51
What about writing advice? Is there anything you've learned along the way that you like to share with other writers,
Anne Marie Jackson 10:56
You have to make writing a priority when you're starting out. If you're anything like me, you're cramming writing in around all the other responsibilities of your life. And it feels when you have those other responsibilities. It can feel like a selfish indulgence, but it's not. If you have the urge to write, it needs to be a priority. What you are writing is worthy, you should take the time and allow yourself to do it, you should schedule the time and make it happen. And one thing that I highly recommend is that if you join a writers group, you can't find a writers group to join. Because you need those regular deadlines, you need that feedback, you need that constant dose of support. I know I never would have finished this book without my writers group. And I think I was lucky I had an easy time because here in San Miguel, the city attracts so many creative types, that just among my internal circle of friends, there were several women who are happy to join a writers group. It might not be quite so easy wherever you're living, but it's worth the effort. Find your creative tribe, you will be glad you did.
Lainey Cameron 12:03
That's great advice. And we were just talking before we started that I'm a member of the Women's fiction writers Association. And one of the really nice things is that it's getting bigger and bigger. It's now up to I think just around 2000 members, but that means that there are more local meetups and local groups coming together because you're starting to see critical mass in certain communities around the world. I haven't tried to do a Sunday go meet up yet, but we might actually be big enough. I know at least three or four other people who are at least part time in this town who are members of WF wa women's fiction writers Association. I definitely want to know the story of the title tell us more about The Broken Hummingbird.
Anne Marie Jackson 12:38
Like you like myself, like a lot of us a lot of people see some magic and hummingbirds to a lot of us they represent joy or good luck or endurance and to a number of native peoples like the Yaquis in Sonora, like the Mayans of the Yucatan, like the Purhépechans in Michoacán, these people see hummingbirds as messengers from the hereafter either messengers from the gods themselves, or from the souls of dearly departed loved ones who have gone before. And it's our job to receive these messages and interpret them, which is absolutely beautiful. In the book. First, there's a literal broken hummingbird a child finds in the garden, a hummingbird who has probably been killed by the neighbor's cat. And it's sort of a pivotal moment in the story. And then on top of that there's a metaphor of children as hummingbirds, especially when they're small and fragile, and at risk of being hurt by the random cruelty of the world. The couple's children in the book are endangered by their parents' toxic marriage. And as adults, it's our job to protect children, especially when doing so requires us to fight our own demons. And then on the third level, the protagonist herself could be seen as a broken hummingbird. She, like all mothers, all women, all humans, has a little magic in her too. But she's let herself sort of be worn down by life. She needs to fix her wings. She needs to get herself together and be a little less fragile if she's going to fix what's going wrong in her life. So she herself is also a Brooklyn hummingbird.
Lainey Cameron 14:17
I know this is a big question, but I noticed that it was in your book club questions. And it's always interesting to me, because I haven't yet written about Mexico even though I live here part time. And there's always this question of like writing it about a culture that is not your own? And how did you come around to kind of feeling comfortable that this was your story to tell and that you could tell it the right way?
Anne Marie Jackson 14:36
That is a very important question. I really respect all the conversations that are going on in the world right now about who has the right to tell whose stories. When I was pitching my book, there was a big backlash against Janine Cummings, American dirt. That's a whole other discussion, but I understand those concerns. earns. And I never want to be guilty of cultural appropriation. But I think there's a critical difference between that book, for example in mind, which is that I do not appropriate anyone's story. I've very carefully stayed in my lane and wrote from the perspective of a protagonist, who is a privileged white American woman who is pretty aware of everything she needs to learn about her beloved adopted country and Mexico. And she knows there are things she doesn't know. And she's really trying to learn. She's trying to do well, it's a challenging, challenging question. But I think we authors can't over censor ourselves, we can't over limit ourselves to writing just about our own lived experiences. A lot of the great works of literature throughout history have come from writing about the other. And that has to still be allowed, but done with incredible respect, incredible humility, and as much skill as possible.
Lainey Cameron 16:00
Yeah. And I think it starts with awareness, right, really thinking about what story am I telling? And how am I telling that story? But just to go back to your hummingbird example, I feel like when you write a book that respects another culture that opens that other culture up to people who are reading this book, what you're doing is you're giving them an interest in that culture, you're helping to give a perspective, right? Most people aren't lucky. I'm lucky enough, privileged enough to come and live in San Miguel. And it is a very unique place in the world. And I love that you're seeking to share that with people who haven't had that opportunity. And so I think it's fabulous. And I'm super excited to get my hands on this as soon as it comes out here. So I don't yet have my hands on it. But I know I will. So my last question for you is, is there anything you can recommend that you've read recently, and that you enjoyed?
Anne Marie Jackson 16:44
Absolutely, there's one book, it's a Mexican classic. It's actually one of the classics of Latin American literature that for some reason, I had never gotten around to reading. And I finally did, and absolutely loved it. And that is Pedro Páramo by Juan Rulfo. It's a short book. It's a quick read. And so if you haven't had the pleasure, I would highly recommend it. It's the story of this son, who on at his mother's deathbed, just mother instructs him that he has to go back to the village where he was born and find his father, he goes off to this village that he hasn't seen since he was a small child, and starts talking to the people, they're looking for his father. And all of these people have incredible stories to tell, oh, he's talking to them, and they're talking to each other. All these conversations are happening on top of each other. And you slowly start to realize as the reader that all of these people are dead, he is in a literal ghost town. And it turns out that his father, Pedro Páramo, is the reason they're all dead. So it's a fantastic story. When it was first written in the 1950s. Nobody knew what to do with it. Nobody knew what to think of it. It was sort of the precursor to magical realism. And it wasn't very popular for the first few years, but then started catching on and slowly people got it. And it became this international classic. Gabriela Garcia Marquez, for example, credits it as life changing, and sort of the impetus behind his writing of his masterpiece, 100 Years of Solitude. So if you haven't had the pleasure to check it out.
Lainey Cameron 18:21
Thanks. Oh, and I actually haven't, so I'm never putting it on my list. And for anyone who's listening to the audio version of the podcast, we always put all the books that are recommended, and the links to the social media for authors on the website, you can find that at best of women's fiction.com. And talking of which, before we wrap up, Marie, if people want to know more about your story, see your life in San Miguel, maybe? Is there a particular social social media platform that you'd like to be present on or hang out on the most?
Anne Marie Jackson 18:48
First of all, there's my website, that's Ann Marie Jackson author.com. And then I prefer Instagram and Facebook, and Jackson author. And if you want to read specifically about Mexico and San Miguel, I write a regular column and Mexico News Daily. So go to Mexico News Daily and look for my recent articles there. And I just did a very interesting podcast called Meet the expats with Pauline Mara of parents spread. And that was a fun episode. So check me out there too.
Lainey Cameron 19:18
Oh, great. Well check that in the links and put the links to all of those on your episode page on the website, too. Well, Emery, it's been an absolute joy getting to speak with you. And I hope many of our listeners here get a chance to read The Broken Hummingbird, including me, as soon as I can get my hands on a copy. So thank you so much for joining me today.
Anne Marie Jackson 19:35
Thank you so much for having me. This was a pleasure.